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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 22, 2013 15:35:58 GMT -5
Figured I was abusing the "Shout" space and really, I have a lot more to say and learn about this so figured I'd start an "official" thread. MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: What is the the percentage of protein? I've been trying to find this information for a couple of weeks now without success. It would be nice to know this for a variety of grain/seed types so that we could blend different seeds to meet different needs. Example, young hens will develop health issues and not become good layers if they are fed a high protein diet. How much protein is high for birds that age? I don't have a clue. HOWEVER, I do know that 16%-18% is what is recommended for laying hens. Increase that to 20% for molting birds. I'm guessing 12%-14% is adequate for juveniles. If I could know the percentage per 100 grams at both 7 days and 10 days of sprouting, that would be ideal. I am sprouting wheat for the moment, but as of tomorrow, I will also be sprouting corn. Bunkie, I'm adding a B Complex tablet to my spray water based on your comments. I'm also working up a spread sheet to track data such as soaked weight and sprouted weight. I got good results and fabulously easy harvesting from putting grain on a small cookie sheet. However, the grain was a bit to dense. It only doubled rather than tripled in weight. We haven't actually tripled in weight on any day, but we have gotten close. We HAVE doubled + every day but one. The web trays with hardware cloth SUCKS. The grain on the outer edges dry out and don't sprout. I've been looking at different types of trays... I want to steer clear of plastic, but I think I won't be able to achieve that short term. I'm thinking cookie sheets MIGHT be the way to go... Check out these from WEBstraunt: Full size sheet panOR Half Sheet panI started grain on a couple I have today. I'll let you know the results in a week. |
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Post by steev on Sept 22, 2013 23:26:48 GMT -5
Looks like you've got a thesis study for your doctorate.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 23, 2013 7:03:04 GMT -5
::blank stare:: Really? LOLOL I sure hope you are teasing me because if that's true, and a high school dropout like myself can "stumble" onto that level of intellectual documentation... well.... Gee whiz!  |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 23, 2013 7:44:00 GMT -5
OK, so thanks to Steev, I've gotten my initial table set up. Now, to see if I can put it in this post....
It says I can't attach the file because the forum has exceeded it's limits... Let's see if I can cut/paste...
SPROUTED FODDER - Initial Documentation - October 2013
date
dry wt
start/end soak time
wet wt
wt per tray
tray material
spray times
harvest date
wt per tray
notes
Well... you don't get all the spiffy formatting, but that's the data I'll be documenting. I'm open to suggestions.
I'm also entertaining thoughts of developing this system to create sprouts for human consumption. I'm investigating the market at the moment. Another big need is seed resources. Wyatt Quarles wants more than $50 for a pound of soy beans? REALLY??? I'll go to Purcell Mountain first! Another thing is that I can't find barley ANYWHERE within 500 miles or less. Not at a reasonable price at least.
Another question/issue entirely.... how ethical is sprouted fodder? Where are all these seeds coming from? Will I be making a profit, however small, at the expense of someone else? Is this a sustainable process?
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 23, 2013 8:26:43 GMT -5
Need to add a column for total harvest weight.
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Post by davida on Sept 23, 2013 9:17:38 GMT -5
Great thread. Thanks for posting, Jo. At his time, we are canning apples and pears, so I am blending the cores with whey after making cheese or old milk or water and soaking the grains with a little catfish feed for the pullets. They look and act very healthy but they are in a movable chicken tractor and are getting fresh grass daily, also. So, we will try the sprouting in the winter.
In answer to your protein question for young hens or pullets, 15% is the protein in the feed that they sell here for feeding between baby chick feed and laying pellets.
Take care and please keep this thread active.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 23, 2013 10:30:21 GMT -5
We are doing fermented feed for the pigs, we don't have enough for the pigs AND the chickens though. My theory is that a blend of fodder AND fermented "stuff" will be "a beautiful thing". Thanks for the encouragement! |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 24, 2013 13:56:02 GMT -5
Harvested the first "solid bottomed" nursery tray with a total weight of 742 grams. That is 8 grams shy of fully tripling the dry weight. I'm impressed! After all, the hype guarantees 3x at LEAST the dry weight. Tomorrows harvest won't be as heavy. I don't know why... Must be uneven watering but I don't see how.
The next interesting thing will be harvesting out of the metal cookie sheets. The first one is still 2 days away. Well, the first large one that is.
I am having a problem with fruit flies. The teensy weensy ones. They are attracted to white wine (oddly enough). I'm also sprinkling dried spearmint all over the trays and putting it in the soaking water as well.
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Post by bunkie on Sept 25, 2013 18:33:11 GMT -5
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 26, 2013 7:10:43 GMT -5
I could have sworn that in the shout box you mentioned adding a B vitamin tab to your watering water. Guess it was from another article.
I get the wheat from the feed and grain but they have not been able to source barley for love nor money. We ARE trying corn though. This is day 4, and thus far it won't break root until the 3rd day. That makes it way behind the wheat which can sometimes break coat while soaking.
The matting is MUCH better in the metal trays and yea, I AM concerned about the aluminum leaching but I'm thinking that by using polished aluminum it's safer than using plastics. I'm trying to move away from plastic use and it is NOT easy. I'm addicted to Ragu spaghetti sauce...
I've seen the "Peak Prosperity" article... that one seems to be all over the place. I'm checking out the other links as soon as I have time. THANKS for posting them! I wish your F&G would talk to my F&G about the barley!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 27, 2013 6:31:34 GMT -5
HURRAY! We made triple weight PLUS today for the first time! It's also the last day of working with 1.5 k dry weight. If we get 4.5 kilos tomorrow... YES!!! That will be SO SO SO awesome! I HAVE decided to go with the full size aluminum bun pans. WITH shipping, I paid $6.90 per. I did have to buy a minimum of 12 pans. This system should reduce the time required to harvest, spread, & water. Least ways I sure hope so. If all goes well I will probably purchase another 12 pans mid-month. That would give me enough pans to produce (optimally) 12 kilos of feed daily or enough for 96 birds or, since we don't have quite THAT many birds (yet) enough for both birds AND piggies.
I STILL need to know the percentage of protein in the sprouted wheat.
OH, AND I took a little bitty sample to the F&G store and we nibbled it... VERY sweet!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Oct 11, 2013 18:54:24 GMT -5
So, bit of an update here. I spent $80 for a dozen 18" x 26" "bun pans" from WEBstaurant. They are the right size for a kilo of grain after soaking (averages 1.5 to 1.7 kilos soaked). I've been doing different things when putting them to soak to reduce washing time and grain loss from draining them. I "scrub" the grain vigorously to get chaff loose in the water and to dissolve bits of dirt. I do this a couple times then I add 1/2 teaspoon of dish liquid and scrub the grain as hard as I can. The grain sticks to the suds unless you sort of shake them down so I scoop as much of the suds as possible out of the bowl, drain, add more water and repeat the process. I leave a bit of the soap behind with the thought that it might help reduce some of the flies/maggots. I also add a tablespoon of bleach to the soaking water.
I have also modified the watering process. Since I don't have to worry about the open bottom containers, I can simply pour in some water. So, about 1.5 cups of water per day seems to do the trick. Swirl it around a bit to make sure the corners and edges in particular get wet. I've also figured out how to have a day off. No, don't laugh... I don't set anything to soak and on the same day the following week I won't have anything to harvest. Yea yea... took me 3 weeks to figure out how to have Sunday off. ::rolls eyes::
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Post by mnjrutherford on Oct 15, 2013 11:38:43 GMT -5
So, mold grows. Bleach does NOT inhibit the stuff in the least. I'm using a 1 gallon pitcher to hold my water and 2 things occur to me, 1 it's the plastic that is either inhibiting the bleach or encouraging the molds. 2 I need to use something else instead of the bleach.
Well, a different water container is not in the picture for the moment. I would like to get an earthenware container for this purpose at some point in the future.
I think I'll try adding a tablespoon of honey to the water rather than a tablespoon of bleach.
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Post by steev on Nov 15, 2013 22:53:11 GMT -5
Two things come to mind (neither being necessarily of any use).
First: Could altering the pH of your water be enough to discourage the mold, either vinegar or baking soda? I can't imagine why honey would serve in this instance, as it's action is based on its dehydrating effect, which is gone when you dilute it; it isn't an antibiotic or anti-fungal, as such, purely a physical agent.
Second: I am curious to know what benefit there is from sprouting, aside from weight-increase due to water-intake. I've no idea what changes may be in nutritional values quantitatively. but that would be very interesting, though it may be beyond your current analytical availability. I doubt not that you will eventually have a complete analytical laboratory at your disposal.
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Post by bunkie on Nov 16, 2013 13:14:12 GMT -5
Two things come to mind (neither being necessarily of any use). First: ...I can't imagine why honey would serve in this instance, as it's action is based on its dehydrating effect, which is gone when you dilute it; it isn't an antibiotic or anti-fungal, as such, purely a physical agent. "... Honey is antiseptic, antibiotic, antifungal, and antibacterial -- it never spoils!..." I believe sprouting and fermenting aids in the nutritional area, and digestion of the food for critters and humans... naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/p/fermented-feed.html" ...The fermentation process uses naturally occurring bacteria to partially break down the food, improving its enzyme content and increasing its levels of vitamins B, C and K. It also makes food more digestible, and boosts the "usable" protein level by about 12 percent.
The other benefits to using fermented feed:
Feed consumption and waste will drop by 1/2 to 3/4 (this will save you money)
Poultry on a diet of fermented feed are generally healthier and less likely to contract disease
There is almost zero waste as chickens don't scratch through it, kicking it out of the feeder
Stools become more solid and many people report less smell in the coop and run!
Egg yolks of eggs laid by hens on fermented feed will become noticeably larger, and shells will be more solid...." |
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