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Post by kantuckid on Nov 29, 2013 8:59:38 GMT -5
Hello from Kentucky, USA! Yep, I'm a newbie here & my wife and I are avid,senior,experienced gardeners. While we claim no serious expertise, we do raise many veggies each year & also have way too many plants,trees & flowers about our place. The farm as a whole is a certified tree farm & mostly forested with mature timber,some I harvest & saw, mostly as falls or dead dying trees. We try a few new various heirlooms each year & give away some & sell none of our goodies.
My current search is for a bean I found during a visit to Hungary ~1999 as one son was in school there at the time,etc.. That bean, for which I have no "name" is a popular & common bean in Hungary, seen for sale shelled in huge piles at many produce stands. It is what I'll call a butter bean & likely what we call in USA a "pole lima bean" & in UK they may be called a "Runner Bean". A fairly recent article in the UK newspaper , "The Telegraph",Gardening section, dated 18 October 2013, profiles a lady there in Suffolk who grows the very bean I'm after & she found it the same way as myself as a tourist there. Hers are growing , mine did not, thus my search. She decribes it to a feeler email out to the Hungarian Seed Growers Association to determine if the bean is available commercially. Zero result from them.
To see the only picture of the bean I've found, so far, "google" "heirloom butter bean" , under "images" in the top row is a picture very similar to this colorful bean. They range in color from black,purple,browns,reds & tans, all solid colors with no speckles or freckles & are a fairly large seed. My memory is looking back several years so they may have varied a bit from this description.
Ideas are welcome,thanks!
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Nov 29, 2013 9:21:03 GMT -5
The word 'butter bean' always confuses me, in Dutch 'boterboon' is the name for fine yellow-podded French beans. Very tasty too, buy completely different from what's called 'butter beans' in English...
If you search for that variety you need to find out what species it is: Lima beans (Phaseolus lunatus) and runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus) are actually 2 different species of beans and both have races that produce big shelling beans that can be white or have all kind of colors.
I did grow some runner beans this year here in Belgium, but I can't say I have much experience with lima beans.
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Post by kantuckid on Nov 29, 2013 11:57:12 GMT -5
The coccineus wiki shows the Scarlet Runner bean as the
"more common bean" in that description. We grew that bean on twig pyramids in our front of house, raised bed, herb/flower garden for flowers, not food. Until I sneak up on the bean I'm seeking& from a source that names it specifically, I'm calling it a butter bean simply because the larger ones are commonly called that name here in USA-meaning-if you buy them canned or frozen in a supermarket the large ones get that name. It is very likely to be a lima bean of some variety.
Here,i.e., on this forum, what with gardeners from here & there you get more variety in naming.
I just used google for "heirloom butter bean"-images vs. "heirloom butter beans"-note the "s"/plural & I got the multicolor bean I want in the top row.
If you google "lima beans" images the light tan, large bean in the top row is the one seen most commonly called a butter bean in USA. When cooked they lack the firmer texture of the green limas sold here which are sold as small "baby limas" & larger , more mature bean , green "limas".
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Post by galina on Nov 30, 2013 2:56:14 GMT -5
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Post by galina on Nov 30, 2013 5:13:36 GMT -5
Another way of finding this bean (always provided it actually is the bean you are looking for!), would be to look in Austria, where they are known as Käferbohnen, aka beetle beans. www.tomatensamen.at/Bohnensamen.htmThis Austrian micro-seed seller has several of them in their seed offer, scroll down the page and look for 'Käferbohnen'. Apparently they are a Styrian speciality. I know that they are also grown in Slovakia, but not sure what they are called there. This ebay seller ships worldwide, but they are only offering one type and you are after a mixture of types. www.ebay.de/itm/1Kilo-12-35-Kg-Bohnen-Kaeferbohnen-gross-rot-schwarz-violett-/231091296707 |
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Post by DarJones on Nov 30, 2013 9:33:43 GMT -5
Kaintuck, the name you are using is probably not correct as noted several times above. The beans from Hungary would most likely be a runner bean. There are several landrace varieties of runner bean that have diverse colors, shapes and sizes though the overall average tends toward large slightly flattened kidney shaped beans.
Your climate is not adapted to growing runner beans. They originated in upland cloud forests of central Mexico and are adapted to equatorial/mediterranean climates where hot summer temperatures are moderated by altitude and/or proximity to the ocean.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Nov 30, 2013 10:47:59 GMT -5
There are much more P coccineus races than the normal scarlet runner beans, and those are perfectly edible too even if people tend to grow them for decoration purposes only, missing a great vegetable. Some runners are grown as white shelling beans (what you'd call butter beans I suppose) the same way as lima beans btw... Were those Greek 'gigantes' not runners for example?
I don't know about Eastern Europe, but we don't really grow lima beans here in Western Europe and they don't like our climate either. Runners are more commonly grown as a decorative plant than as a serious crop, but they do thrive in our climate more than common beans even. I don't know how the Hungarian land climate compares to our sea climate though...
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Post by kantuckid on Nov 30, 2013 14:24:02 GMT -5
Kaintuck, the name you are using is probably not correct as noted several times above. The beans from Hungary would most likely be a runner bean. There are several landrace varieties of runner bean that have diverse colors, shapes and sizes though the overall average tends toward large slightly flattened kidney shaped beans. Your climate is not adapted to growing runner beans. They originated in upland cloud forests of central Mexico and are adapted to equatorial/mediterranean climates where hot summer temperatures are moderated by altitude and/or proximity to the ocean. As I originally stated, these are called "runner beans " in the UK.They were called such by a lady featured in a UK newspaper that is raising the exact bean I'm after. As to if they'll grow in my hot humid summer, that remains to be seen. I will say that the one place in the USA that the "butter bean" is most popular & grown too, is the deep south, where it's hotter than my KY climate and less rain in the summers. Common beans raised in my area(gardens are very popular here!) are pole beans,bush beans, 1/2 runners,cornfield beans and even in a county where there are no red lights,no factories,no jobs,no much of anything except a few people & lots of critters-the local farm supply sells large plastic trash cans full of just one variety of bean seeds. I have traveled many times in Mexico. I ride my motorcylce there in the winter & not many places there that I've not seen , up close & personal. I always do the large & small produce markets-The one in Oaxaca is a whing dinger! Large & interesting! Bringing home seeds is tough on an air trip these days! The few seeds I brought home from our last trip to UK were taken from me & destroyed even though brand name sealed envelopes. When I go to Mexico I can bring back most anything on my MC. I'm not suggesting unrelated to seeds, illegal activity, just seeds which are in my personal OK area. |
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Nov 30, 2013 16:35:24 GMT -5
Like I said before, what is called runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus) in the UK is not the same as what is most commonly called 'butter bean' in the US, which is a lima bean (Phaseolus lunatus). Both species are grown sometimes for their big shelled beans, but apart from that they also really different species, that generally do like like a completely different climate too, even if they look a bit alike.
(To not get into confusion with naming, let's also note that the white half runner, a snap bean, is the common bean (P. vulgaris). Note also that pole or bush beans can be varieties of any of those species!)
Runner beans like a cooler climate and grow very well here in Western Europe, lima beans like a hotter climate and generally don't grow here at all, and the common bean is in between and can cope with more climates I think, we grow a lot of varieties of common beans here too anyway. But if you say the scarlet runner grows in you climate there shouldn't be that much of a problem, since that is the most typical 'runner bean' grown in the UK, whether you grow them for food or not. Scarlet runner is the most popular version of runner beans, but there are a lot of other races and varieties in a lot of colors (in both seed and flower) and sizes, and they cross very easily unlike common beans so if you grow them together you can get in-between colors too.
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Post by zeedman on Dec 1, 2013 2:57:17 GMT -5
Ditto the comments by Fusion & Hortus B. If the bean in question is being grown in the U. K., it is most likely a runner bean ( P. coccineus) or less likely, a large-seeded common bean ( P. vulgaris). Limas would be difficult to impossible in the U.K., unless grown under protection. "Butterbean" is an imperfect term... only one of many imperfect & confusing terms in the bean lexicon. What we call a "butterbean" here in the U.S. is (usually) a lima; but even in the U.S., there is disagreement over what type of lima is a butterbean. So if you are having trouble being understood, Kantuckid, don't feel bad about it... you've got a lot of company.  If you are able to post a link to the bean you are looking for, it would be helpful. It may be that the multi-colored beans you mentioned were actually several different varieties mixed together. There are a lot of collectors here, it may be that someone already has your bean (or beans) - if we only knew what they look like. FYI, I have a Hungarian bush bean that is an outstanding shelly, if you can't find what you are looking for. I was in Berea last October (for Bill Best's annual gathering & seed swap), if you had been there, I could have given them to you directly (as well as several other good shelly beans).  |
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Post by kantuckid on Dec 1, 2013 13:31:58 GMT -5
I'm not making any arguments here as to bean names. I'm not well versed enough to do that in this crowd!
A couple of comments about the above posts:
The lady in UK that is raising this bean gives no Latin name for it but it describes the bean I'd like to find to a "T"!
She is NOT!!! raising several types of beans in the same row-they are "a bean" that gives various colors from that planting.
She does in fact, sort for color & states that a certain color tastes better to her.I have her name & address from a web search but not so sure "Royals"(She married an Earl)talk to hillbillies about beans?-HA! FWIW, I am a KC "Royals" fan-might not matter to her?
I have not seen my search bean in any posts above.
I have looked through a couple of Hungarian seed sellers bean listings & haven't seen it there either-I did see a couple of beans that account for several of the colors involved.
I have not yet looked through the Austrian list.
I live close(~1.5hr) to Berea,KY but never been to seed swap.I have bought seeds from SSE & other heirloom sources.
Question: Do members of this forum experience any issues(as in the customs takes the seeds and/or fines you!) with seeds mailed to you in USA from EU countries?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 1, 2013 14:04:08 GMT -5
Question: Do members of this forum experience any issues(as in the customs takes the seeds and/or fines you!) with seeds mailed to you in USA from EU countries? Yes. It is arbitrary, random, and capricious. No way of discerning what will be stolen and what won't. |
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Post by mybighair on Dec 1, 2013 14:18:46 GMT -5
kantuckid,
I've contacted a friend of the lady in question about her beans (best to go through a friend where the aristocracy is concerned) and she is perusing the mater for me. I'll let you know if can get hold of some for you, I've sent seed to the US before without issue so you should be fine to receive them. Assuming her Ladyship has some spare that is.
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Post by steev on Dec 1, 2013 23:43:29 GMT -5
Noblesse oblige!
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Post by kantuckid on Dec 2, 2013 15:05:16 GMT -5
PM sent in regard to mybighair's reply,thanks
As for the customs people, I can assure you they can be very "gregarious" at times! I'm trying to be nice here...I have had several really "fun experiences" with those folks. I understand what they're protecting in far better detail than most who pass through their scrutiny & yet still I find them to generally be nasty people!
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