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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 19:01:00 GMT -5
This botanical name is our chimera, but it already exists as one nice fruit.
Cucurbita maxima kabocha group x Cucumis melo inodorus group first had the round size of the 5 to 7 lbs. weighing pumpkin but many melonlike seeds. From 700 there were 375 fertile.
Color lime green with rear orange mottling.
F2 then showed a very broad diversification with mostly flattened shape bluegreen and orange, but one was round and orange and one tiny little fruit was acorn-sized and lime green like the mother fruit but with more orange mottling.
The later one had the best melonlike flesh and seed, and it was juicy and sweet like the pollinator for F1.
We named this now red fruit (color changed after one month ripening at a dry and warm place) with yellow ground spot Cucurbita maximelo `Acorneti´.
One grower in the USA and one in Europe will grow F1 next year and try to get more such little acornetis.
We in Germany and a grower in Hungary will multiply our Acorneti F2 in 2014.
If you want to grow Acorneti F2 in isolated gardens (no C. maxima nearby), please contact: ludwig.ammer@gmail.com
I will send you pictures fist.
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Post by raymondo on Dec 6, 2013 6:16:19 GMT -5
I'm amazed they crossed, given how distantly they are related. Was the original cross deliberate or accidental?
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Post by samyaza on Dec 6, 2013 7:06:52 GMT -5
Really interesting. I'd never thought this intergeneric cross could work. Even cucumber is greatly incompatible with melon, even if in the same genus.
Such an hybrid can easily become a bridge for genes flow between them. You can now backcross them more easily. Who knows, it may become an hardier crop than melon. If you select it at best, you must have a treasure in your hands.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 9:16:42 GMT -5
I'm amazed they crossed, given how distantly they are related. Was the original cross deliberate or accidental? Hello raymondo. We had cagelike anti-hail-netting (10` high and only upside open) in 2012 and planted several pumpkins and only one melon with the aim that bumblebees should do some crossbreeding. So it was a forced game with natural accidents. What makes the story mostly curious is that our Cucurbita maxima kabocha group was not deliberately planted: it was a accidental seed with our Cucurbita moschata `La Estrella´ from Florida. We wanted to see, what fruit this false seed would develop and planted it close to Cucumis melo inodorus group `Tigger´. Our little at that time seven years old son Bertold Carl wanted to determine new plant species, like his namesake and botanist Berthold Carl Seemann did in the 19th century. Our Bertold Carl Ammer (ABC) did grafting-tries with the tiggermelon and pumpkin seedlings, when he was only 6 years old, and then he wanted to reach more: he could not believe that there was a strong interspecific barrier between this Cucurbitas and Cucumis...since he knew about other interspecific hybrids on the market. I sometimes play bumblebee. I´ll give you that. But I did not do any finer technique then move a blossom. ABC also moved blossoms and created a nice pumpkin out of a Cucurbita maxima `Turks Turban´: he pollinated with an Atlantic Giant Pumpkin and got fruits only a little bigger but broader and with a mirror instead the dumpling. In 2013 this 3 kg or 5 to 7 lbs. weighing fruits literally exploded and grew 9 to 17 kg or 20 to 40 lbs. with whitish sunburst rays on the bright orange and a little flattened pumpkin, that has a very nice and genetically solid whitish mirror. ABC also crossed Cucurbita pepo Acorn `Table Gold´ x C. pepo Acorn `Fordhook´ with the result of a prolonged and bright yellow (instead of orange) Table Gold: we named it C. pepo `Yacorn´ with Y for yellow. And we now have a very sweet and fast growing cross of C. moschata `Early Butternut´ x C. moschata `Kentucky Field´... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 9:21:10 GMT -5
...vector sunburst rays...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 9:37:14 GMT -5
Really interesting. I'd never thought this intergeneric cross could work. Even cucumber is greatly incompatible with melon, even if in the same genus. Such an hybrid can easily become a bridge for genes flow between them. You can now backcross them more easily. Who knows, it may become an hardier crop than melon. If you select it at best, you must have a treasure in your hands. Yes, a treasure my son´s Acorneti fruit is! A treasure for your region it might become too, since you can´t grow a sweet melon without anti-hail netting or plastics there in northerly France. We are so happy now about your answer: now our curiosity will become valuably. Bertold Carl learns English now at school, but he wants to learn French too next year. You sent me a link for your list, but my Trend Micro Internet Security clocked it continuously. Could you please email me such a list directly? |
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Dec 6, 2013 10:14:38 GMT -5
Sounds fascinating! How does it taste?
One question, if it's an intergeneric cross, should the genus name not be X Cucumbita or some other mix of Cucurbita and Cucumis?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 12:00:02 GMT -5
Sounds fascinating! How does it taste? One question, if it's an intergeneric cross, should the genus name not be X Cucumbita or some other mix of Cucurbita and Cucumis? Thank you. It tasted not so dull like a melon grown too far north, it tasted not so pure sugar-sweet like a watermelon from Spain... It tasted fresh and juicy like an apple admixed with a honeymelon, when I ate it crudely. My wife and my son ate it baked and they were so delighted with this Acorneti, that they left over nothing for me. They always said: no other pumpkin or squash is not nearly so delicious dish. They ate it pure. Texture is fine and shell is so strong that it could be stored nearly a year, I think. Cucumis is not so important: people know melon(e) and better understand C. maximelo. |
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Post by samyaza on Dec 6, 2013 17:19:16 GMT -5
I wonder if your stranger kabocha seed could have been crossed with La Estrella itself. Were they planted together ? It might even be an accidental cross of La Estrella made at your supplier's, so the seeds you purchased contained an unknown hybrid. Squash pollen is pretty difficult to control, especially when grown close together. This is what La Estrella looks like :   Pretty stripes ! The striped character could easily come from this variety, with a codominant expression. Anyway, C. moschata is said difficult to grow in our climate. I've always thought it wasn't worth the try here. Moreover, I don't cook a lot of squash nor pumpkin. Whatever it is, it deserves interest. |
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Post by Hristo on Dec 6, 2013 22:02:00 GMT -5
@acorneti I saw some images at GW you posted. Lets hope I'm very wrong, because such a cross is a dream, but based on these images I would say it's 100% C. maxima. Nothing looks like melon. On top the seed count is suspiciously high for such wide cross. As I said I really hope I'm wrong. Even cucumber is greatly incompatible with melon, even if in the same genus. That is quite true, and because of that I was surprised when I accidentally saw past Spring commercial seeds described as C. sativus X C. melo. The variety is called 'Mira'. The fruits do looked like the one on the images, but unfortunately I did not paid much attention to the plants until they were gone. Still I think it's pure C. melo, but will know more next year when I see the F2's. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 12:36:57 GMT -5
@acorneti I saw some images at GW you posted. Lets hope I'm very wrong, because such a cross is a dream, but based on these images I would say it's 100% C. maxima. Nothing looks like melon. On top the seed count is suspiciously high for such wide cross. As I said I really hope I'm wrong. That is quite true, and because of that I was surprised when I accidentally saw past Spring commercial seeds described as C. sativus X C. melo. The variety is called 'Mira'. The fruits do looked like the one on the images, but unfortunately I did not paid much attention to the plants until they were gone. Still I think it's pure C. melo, but will know more next year when I see the F2's. Hristo! How could I send a picture here, when this system is to small for my attached ones? I tried it several times, but it did not work. I think that you watched the Acorneti fruit just harvested, when it was more green then orange, but two weeks later it was dark orange or nearly red with a mottled ground spot. I would send you a picture and one cross section picture too, where the melon juice squirts you out of the screen! Since I always said, that Acorneti is Cucurbita, you only can confirm this but not say that maximelo would be unfair. Why do I name it maximelo? ´cause habit is C. maxima but juicy flesh and seeds are melon. Thanks anyway! I always appreciate animadversion. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 13:09:04 GMT -5
I wonder if your stranger kabocha seed could have been crossed with La Estrella itself. Were they planted together ? It might even be an accidental cross of La Estrella made at your supplier's, so the seeds you purchased contained an unknown hybrid. Squash pollen is pretty difficult to control, especially when grown close together. The striped character could easily come from this variety, with a codominant expression. Anyway, C. moschata is said difficult to grow in our climate. I've always thought it wasn't worth the try here. Moreover, I don't cook a lot of squash nor pumpkin. Whatever it is, it deserves interest. Oh, no! The C. maxima kabocha group seed was as a false seed betwenn C. moschata `La Estrella´. We saw that before. La Estrella we only grew in the anti-hail-cage. This year we grew without the netting and harvested none of Bambina Gigante, Muscate de Provence, Pennsylvania Crook Neck or La Estrella. I thought like you samyaza, that La Estrella might have caused the juiciness of our mottled and striped Ball last year, which is F1 Acorneti. But why is the stretto breeding then reduced to the size of a honeydew melon? I have sown and harvested seeds of La Estrella: blatant pumpkin seed! But our F1 mottled ball and F2 Acorneti have beaming melonlike seed. I have harvested the mottled ball together with La Estrella fruit, and they had the same size, same shape but clearly were C. moschata vs. C. maxima! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 13:31:47 GMT -5
samyaza, I´ll send a picture with both seeds nearby to you, but I can´t add it here.
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Post by Hristo on Dec 7, 2013 13:45:05 GMT -5
@acorneti You can upload the images to some image hosting, then add them here. For example, go to postimage.orgupload image #1 copy the first link for forums. Looks like: [url=http://postimage.org/][img]IMAGE URL[/img][/url]Post it here P. S. Very juicy flesh sounds promising. |
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Post by samyaza on Dec 7, 2013 17:58:13 GMT -5
Hristo : You mean, like this ?   acorneti : You seem to grow a lot of different varieties. Do you have some clear goal ? Do you breed C. moschata for earliness and cold tolerance especially ? I can tell you C. maxima is superior to C. pepo to my opinion ( had to eat a pan of Gold Fever every lunch for a week because I didn't want to waste a Jack O'Lantern this fall... really depressing... ) but I've no idea how to differentiate C. maxima and C. moschata. I read moschata has the star shape on the fruit as C. pepo but a round stem, and a typical powder on the skin. No idea of the taste. Crispy... sweet... juicy... I need to verify this hypothesis, I tell you !  |
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