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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 11, 2014 11:10:10 GMT -5
For centuries people have said, "Meh. Chickens don't lay during the winter." What if they did?
Any thoughts on how one would go about creating a flock of day neutral chickens? By that I mean chickens that will continue to lay all winter long without artificial lighting.
Are there any current breeds of chickens that are more likely to lay during the shorter days of winter?
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Post by oxbowfarm on Feb 11, 2014 12:03:30 GMT -5
Buff Orpingtons are pretty reliable in the winter.
For me, the artifical lighting thing is so damn easy. $12 solar-powered LED path light in the window of the coop runs for hours after dark, I've had it in the coop for 3 years and its still going strong. The amount of light it takes to trick the hens pituitary is negligible, I've read of guys doing it with candles, not that I'd ever put a lit candle in a chicken coop.
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Post by 12540dumont on Feb 11, 2014 15:11:01 GMT -5
Now this is interesting. My chickens do not stop laying in the winter. They do a molt sometime during the year and stop for a few weeks. As you all know due to the mountain lion that ate most of my flock, I'm down to only 7 birds. 1 rooster and 6 hens. My flock was originally 24 hens only of Cuckoo Marans. Then I ordered Mystery Assortment: $20.00.00 plus shipping. Use shipping rate for 25 chicks for each order and send separate shipping payment for each Mystery Assortment ordered. The Mystery Assortment is chickens only. Occasionally we have extras from genetic crossing experiments. I've long had an interest in genetics and, on occasion, I do some experimental crosses between breeds. I'm also working on developing a hardy pasture raised, disease tolerant, fast growing meat bird. Over the next few years we are working on that as a project. This mix can have anything from our projects (including the occassional mis-marked egg or oddity). This is not a purebred collection. We only recommend this to someone who doesn't care about breeds or breeding, but is either just wanting something for eggs or meat. The availability of this is sporadic and would only be available on the weeks when I don't have time to keep any extras for further study. We reserve the right to fill in with a few pure breeds (if we have them) to fill this assortment. This assortment is not necessarily available at every hatch. Therefore, if you place an order for these, please be as flexible on shipping dates as possible. This assortment is only available as a unit of 25 chicks. This assortment is all full sized chickens - no bantams. This was from Sand Hill Preservation. Glenn and I corresponded briefly and I asked him to make sure that he sent at least one broody type and I explained to him that my Cuckoos from the hatchery seemed really nervous. Glenn, who knows everything about chickens said that was totally wrong and they should be very quiet chickens. To this end he sent me some of his experimental chicken crosses. All are of French chickens lineage. Favarolles and other Marans. Why Marans....so I could sing "3 French Hens" and name my roosters after Kings. We've had Louis and George and currently we have Charles Stuart (Stewie) the Pretender to the throne. If you want winter laying chickens, I suggest you start with Glenn  I love my chickens. If we ever have rain, I'll order more from Glenn. But chicken food here is running $16 a bag,,,so I'll have to be content with my flock o' seven. Well, I better go feed Bonnie Prince Charlie. |
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Post by rowena on Feb 11, 2014 16:32:52 GMT -5
I've heard that Australorps lay consistently over winter under natural conditions, but they were bred in an environment with relatively long winter days (Australia) so they may not do well in colder climates. They apparently average 250 eggs per year.
We're keeping an old Swedish landrace called 'Gotlandshöns' (hens from Gotland). With eight mature hens and no artificial lighting we're getting one egg every other day.
The Swedish Heirloom Hen organisation provides some stats you may or not find interesting. Members are required to let the hens live as naturally as possible so these figures should be for hens without artificial lighting.
Egg production for Swedish landraces:
Swedish Flower Hens (Blommehöna in Swedish)* 138.8 eggs per hen per year, wt 61g
Hedemora Hens* 139.37 eggs per hen per year, wt 51g
Åsbo Hens 140.17 eggs per hen per year, wt 47g <-- highest number of eggs per year
Gotland Hens 122.55 eggs per hen per year, wt 58g <-- our variety
The two with asterisks have been imported into the USA. The flower hens are quite pretty and are also the largest of the landraces. I hope you find the info useful or at least interesting!
There are more stats but these are probably most interesting to you.
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Post by flowerweaver on Feb 13, 2014 13:11:39 GMT -5
I have many breeds of chickens and most of them lay quite well in the winter. I do not use supplemental lighting. Both coops have an abundance of natural lighting but the days are longer here. Mine stop laying in the fall. I think this is mainly due to the yearly molt. It seems in the fall, only the Ameraucanas are laying, and they stop in the winter, so I'm never without eggs. I keep Buff, Gold, White-crested Black, White, and Silver-Laced Polands; Ameraucanas, Dark Brahmas, Salmon Faverolles, Cuckoo Marans, Cream Brabanters, Sicilian Buttercups, and Apenzeller Spitzhaubens. My best layers are the Polands, Ameraucanas, Faverolles, Brahmas, and Marans. They are very friendly and easy to work with. It's important for me to be able to handle all the birds. I have let my Egyptian Fayoumis go, and the Spitzhubens are next. Just too flighty. 12540dumont I have broodies among these. I may be adding to my flock from Sand Hill this year. |
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Post by blackox on Feb 14, 2014 18:45:42 GMT -5
Most of the chickens breeds that I keep lay exceptionally well during the winter and seem to cool off during the summer instead. (We do have a cheap solar panel setup to encourage the birds to get into the coop at night.) The breeds are; Black Copper Maran, Golden Comet, Rhode Island Red. Barred Plymouth Rock, and a few mixes. We have butchered all of the Barred Rocks recently as the hens were getting old, (they tasted great!) but they did lay well over the winter.
I've heard plenty of people say that chickens don't lay well over the winter, but after all of this time raising chickens I still can't figure out what they're talking about.
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Post by mybighair on Feb 15, 2014 16:25:27 GMT -5
I've read some old descriptions on the Asian breeds before they were standardised by British breeders, and they were said to lay continuously. But in creating standardised breeds from the original imports they were crossed with the European breeds and the trait was largely lost.
Many breeds have the potential to lay well in winter as there is a lot of Asian blood in most of them.
If I remember my chicken genetics right, the trait is recessive. So careful observation and selection could improve things. If you were to hatch eggs from your best winter layers and breed exclusively with their offspring you could develop a better strain.
When I was keeping chickens I always purchased my hatching eggs in winter, from people who didn't use artificial lighting. As a result, I didn't need lights to get a good supply of eggs through the winter.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 12, 2014 8:11:20 GMT -5
My hopes of creating a day neutral layer have been slightly crushed over the last few weeks. It clearly will not be as easy as I thought, but it is still a worthy undertaking.
My BIG question will now be HOW? At this moment, I'm thinking that I will hold back on the issue for the next two generations and simply take the winter eggs with artificial lighting for hatching. That way I will be strengthening the cold weather tolerance.
After a couple of seasons, I THINK I will start reducing (SLIGHTLY) the time of the artificial lights. Perhaps by 15 minutes per generation? That will mean 4 years per hour. It will be worth it in the end I think. Any thoughts?
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Post by blackox on Mar 12, 2014 8:24:32 GMT -5
Do you have a sure way of telling which hens lay the best?
Build some trap nest boxes so you can keep track of how well the hens lay. The, making sure that your hens are marked for easy identification; keep a roster for each hen, counting how many eggs the hen lay per week. (Hen with green leg-band #65 layed 5 eggs this week, while hen with red leg-band #16 layed 3 this week.) You would also have to do this with a non-lighted setting during winter of course. Then you simply cull for the the trait.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 12, 2014 11:29:15 GMT -5
I have thought about how to do that and to be honest, I haven't figured out a way. Can you elaborate on the "trap nest boxes"? What would they look like and how would they work? Also, having 1 roo for 1 hen WON'T go over very well. Chickens make polygamists look practically virginal by contrast. A roo will literally tear a single hen up because she won't have any time to heal between mating. So that really isn't a practical way to go.
I was kinda looking towards 2 to three years out being able to isolate 6 to 10 hens per roo and using a camera system to record laying. But that would be expensive and rather time consuming. There is a more low tech way of achieving this trait as well. The Swedish Flower being an excellent example.
As of next season, we will be culling eggs by size and shell density as well.
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Post by steev on Mar 12, 2014 23:35:04 GMT -5
The rooster across the road occasionally chases down the ducks; what a perv!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 13, 2014 3:23:54 GMT -5
Like a rooster would have a chance with a duck! Ever notice there is no such thing as a duck/chicken cross? Ever wonder why? We DO however, have a male guinea that was raised with the Barred Rocks. We've tried and tried to repatriate him with the other guineas, but... to no avail.
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Post by blackox on Mar 13, 2014 6:35:14 GMT -5
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Post by blackox on Mar 13, 2014 6:37:20 GMT -5
You should see the male ducks, I've seen them on geese, chicken, and inanimate objects.  |
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Post by copse on Mar 13, 2014 16:39:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the pointer on trap nesting boxes. I've got six hens, of which one is laying. This seems like a good way to keep an eye out for the moochers. |
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I love my chickens. If we ever have rain, I'll order more from Glenn. But chicken food here is running $16 a bag,,,so I'll have to be content with my flock o' seven. Well, I better go feed Bonnie Prince Charlie. 
