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Post by richardw on Apr 27, 2014 0:38:20 GMT -5
Ive been experimenting with a system of cold composting that uses pine logs as a carbon addition,over time ive learnt that i need to give the logs plenty of time to break down first before they are added to the compost,the compost that can be seen on the left had logs and branches added two years ago,but were not rotten enough so that when it came time to use this compost digging it out it made very difficult,those branches and near rotten logs ended up been thrown back into the system for a second,at least i know now that next time they will be rotten enough to dig into the garden. All the green matter,house scrapes,seaweed and rock phosphate is stacked up as seen on the right side of the rotating anticlockwise composting system just behind the aged logs/branches,it takes me five years to do a complete circuit.I need to turn over the compost at least a dozen time so as to germinate the weed seeds that is a down side with cold composting but when so much of the bulk is lost in the decomposing process i think its easier to turn it over at the end of the process that at the start if it were a hot compost.  A view of how rotten the logs are after five years,all it takes is a few whacks with the back of an axe and they fall apart nicely  |
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Post by MikeH on Apr 27, 2014 5:23:25 GMT -5
Brilliant, Richard. We're moving to the same kind of thing but nowhere near as well setup as you are. We're not too concerned about the weeds since a couple of scythings a year knock them down. We're starting to produce large quantities of comfrey and nettle and will use fermented teas - drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4z8GE1bbsDjLXJPV21aSDQ5QzA&usp=sharing, to drench the piles as often as we can. I'm still looking for a free source of granite rock dust to add to the piles (and our beds). We'll probably add a certain amount of finished compost into the unfinished piles to speed the process and to allow planting the piles with nitrogen fixers which will suppress the weeds and can be chopped and dropped to release nitrogen into the piles and build the piles as well. We've just has a couple of helpers for the past two weeks who have opened up a section of our woods. We have LOTS of dogwood brush which we'll chip with a 12 hp chipper that we found online. The ramial wood chips produced will be use to compost in place, ie, mulch when we move our haskaps and black currants into this zone 5 area away from the current zone 2/3 area that they are currently in. They took out a large section of the stumps and roots so we'll sow peas into the soil to quickly prevent any weed growth.   |
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Post by philagardener on Apr 27, 2014 6:08:38 GMT -5
MikeH, how are you getting all those root systems out of the ground? I can't tell which dogwood this is, but C. stolonifera resprouts pretty vigorously.
I've often thought that chipped wood would be very amenable to biochar production - dense, easy to pack, product ideally sized for soil incorporation. I've followed several threads about that but it seems like it hasn't taken off here because of logistics and issues with fires. Here in the US, there are huge mounds of chips from tree trimming operations that just seem to get higher and higher . . .
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Post by MikeH on Apr 27, 2014 10:35:33 GMT -5
MikeH, how are you getting all those root systems out of the ground? I can't tell which dogwood this is, but C. stolonifera resprouts pretty vigorously. I've often thought that chipped wood would be very amenable to biochar production - dense, easy to pack, product ideally sized for soil incorporation. I've followed several threads about that but it seems like it hasn't taken off here because of logistics and issues with fires. Here in the US, there are huge mounds of chips from tree trimming operations that just seem to get higher and higher . . . It's gray not red dogwood. Cornus racemosa is generally single stem although it does spread by root suckers. Our experience has been that using a sawzall right at ground level kills it entirely, ie, no resprouting. Cut a foot higher and it resprouts. WeThey used the pick end of a mattock to pry the "stump" up. There are only two to three roots so it was easy to cut through them with loppers if they didn't snap first. As for biochar, I'm not entirely convinced that we have the entire picture. Archeological discoveries always give us a snapshot that requires extrapolation. The detailed discovery of Göbekli Tepe in Turkey in 1994 completely re-writes our thinking about the beginning of agriculture. Toby Hemenway frames one interpretation of the meaning of the discovery. At this point, I'll use wood chips closer to the way that Nature more commonly uses them, ie, as ground cover than in a process whose origins we don't fully understand and have simplified into something approaching a fad. As for the huge piles of wood chips getting higher and higher, Nature will reclaim them into pretty good soil. Of course, we'll have lost a lot of trees along the way and maybe turned the near atmosphere on its ear which will probably make that pretty good soil of not much use to us since we might not be around to use it. |
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Post by richardw on Apr 27, 2014 15:39:13 GMT -5
Very interesting talk by Toby Hemenway.
How slow is the red dogwood to break down Mike,though i suppose a lot depends on how fine the chipper can chop up into individual pieces,its about using what is either in my case a forestry waste product or in your case a tree species as carbon mulch.
The forest i get my wood from is land owned by our local council and takes up a small corner of a historic horse racing track,this public reserve is managed by a 7 member committee myself been one,seven years ago the forest was thinned out as in 1 out of 2 trees dropped and the remaining trees had branches removed up to 5m high,i only bring out logs these days while all remaining branches get stacked up into a pile there with the idea that one day i'll be able bring it back as mulch.The committee are happy for me to take as much as i want because it reduces the fire danger in summer.
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Post by MikeH on Apr 28, 2014 12:01:32 GMT -5
I don't about the red dogwood since we don't have much of it and tend to leave it since it grows in the wet spots. The gray dogwood seems to breakdown in 3-4 years when left exposed to the air and a bit faster than that when in a pile where the soil makers can get at it. My chipper turns them into pretty fine bits so the transformation into soil will be pretty fast, I think.
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Post by richardw on Apr 28, 2014 15:21:08 GMT -5
Thats what i like about using Monterey Pine or Pinus radiata is it breaks down fast,its also helped by our native huhu grub en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huhu_beetle ,you can see where the grubs have been by the holes in the logs in the photo i posted,the grubs can be nice to eat too,taste a like peanut butter when they eat NZ native timbers but horrible when out of Pinus radiata |
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Post by kevin8715 on Apr 28, 2014 19:39:21 GMT -5
Nice setup. My cold compost is a 100 gallon bin in which I got from a neighbor. Usually starts of hot when nitrogen materials is added but then cools down with many types of worms in it. Earwigs and snails also reside in there which is annoying.
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Post by richardw on Apr 29, 2014 14:34:39 GMT -5
Mind you,the earwigs do a great job breaking down the logs i use
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Post by kevin8715 on Apr 29, 2014 18:21:35 GMT -5
Mind you,the earwigs do a great job breaking down the logs i use They or the slugs killed 7 potato seedlings. Most of my direct seeded tomato took lots of damage. I guess eventually their greedness will work against them that all the vigores will be left. |
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Post by walnutt on May 7, 2014 5:11:58 GMT -5
Those be big chunks of log piles, Richard.
Is the overall aim to get some organic cover over river gravels over a big area ?
In among our walnuts I used P. radiata as a wind shelter, each 4th tree was P. rad, then started felling them into windrows at year eight. most felled by year 10. kick the stumps apart with a steel cap boot OK at 4 years after felling, but the tops took another couple to four years to subside to ground level, even with our humidity. Too far to haul the wood back home apart from firewood for us & a few friends. [ Should have used a eucalypt.]
With your dry & cold that 5 year breakdown is pretty impressive. Much like the leaky buildings scenario I guess.
Would it be an insult to scatter a handful of urea over each pile ? maybe twice in autumn, twice in spring, after a shower ?
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Post by paquebot on May 7, 2014 21:32:02 GMT -5
Would it be an insult to scatter a handful of urea over each pile ? maybe twice in autumn, twice in spring, after a shower ? Better yet, 2 or 3 times a day when nobody is watching. Use urine! Martin |
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Post by steev on May 7, 2014 22:53:13 GMT -5
Two or three times a day? You're not getting enough water for kidney/bladder health! If anybody wants to watch, piss on 'em!
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Post by MikeH on Aug 10, 2016 14:43:46 GMT -5
MikeH, how are you getting all those root systems out of the ground? I can't tell which dogwood this is, but C. stolonifera resprouts pretty vigorously. I've often thought that chipped wood would be very amenable to biochar production - dense, easy to pack, product ideally sized for soil incorporation. I've followed several threads about that but it seems like it hasn't taken off here because of logistics and issues with fires. Here in the US, there are huge mounds of chips from tree trimming operations that just seem to get higher and higher . . . We're now using ======> The Extractigator <======. It actually lives up to its billing. Great for sumac as well which can be a real pain to get out. |
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