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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 16, 2017 4:12:28 GMT -5
Joseph Lofthouse , Here's something you might find interesting for you self-incompatible genetics searches. Unilateral incompatibility gene ui1.1 encodes an S-locus F-box protein expressed in pollen of Solanum species www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4417.figures-onlyand to quote Fusion_Power: So combined with the illustration above i take all that info to mean that the varieties with self-incompatibility that are easiest to cross would be: S. pimpinellifolium, S. chmielewskii, S. habrochaites, S. neorickii, and S. pennelli. and not related but kinda neat. Don't you wish you had tomato flowers that has a little anthocyanin like these? Too bad these particular ones are transgenic. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0136365
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 16, 2017 18:57:19 GMT -5
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 16, 2017 19:31:49 GMT -5
"...anthers connivent laterally to form a flask-shaped cone, with an elongated sterile tip at the apex (except in S. pennellii)..." Joseph Lofthouse, have you used S. pennellii in your crosses? I successfully grew one S. pennellii plant to maturity. It produced a ripe fruit, but the seed like things inside didn't germinate. Here's what the flowers looked like. I would love to incorporate that anther cone shape into promiscuously pollinating tomatoes!!! Solanum pennellii flower.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 16, 2017 20:59:04 GMT -5
cool flower shape! hmm.. since these are supposed to be self-infertile i wonder if that means it was not pollinated. Unless you meant that even with cross pollination it still did not set seed. I feel like something similar happened when you grew lycopersicon glandulosum. I wonder if you would have better success if you crossed some of these wild tomatoes with each other first and then used the f1 hybrids to cross with modern tomatoes if that would produce easier crossing. Or if you know what your looking for, perhaps you coould select and request seed for one of these lines specifically for the flower trait. tgrc.ucdavis.edu/pennellii_ils.aspxEDIT: according to this you probably would want introgression line IL2-5Accession: LA4040 Background genotype: M-82 Mating System: Autogamous-SC Sporophytic Chromosome Number: 24 Relevant Chromosome: 2 Horticultural Recommendations: greenhouse culture Comments: S. pennellii introgression line IL 2-5; exserted stigma.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448767/
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 16, 2017 21:41:33 GMT -5
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 16, 2017 22:43:07 GMT -5
S. pennellii grew poorly for me, so I had very few flowers to experiment with. And the two fruits it made were pollinated by S. peruvianum and S. corneliomulleri so I wasn't expecting much. I can't find my seeds for S. pennellii, but if I do, or can get more, then I'll try growing it again in different soil.
The first year I grew S. corneliomulleri it didn't produce seeds. The second year, I planted about 30 plants and most of them didn't produce seeds, but some did, so I intend to replant. Perhaps plain old selection will lead to more reliable production in my garden. Other wild tomato species were growing about 10 to 30 feet away, so they might have contributed pollen. I have seeds from another S. corneliomulleri plant that was grown in isolation from other members of it's species, but only a few feet from other wild species, so it might be naturally (or manually) pollinated by S. peruvianum, S. habrochaites, or S pennellii, or the seeds might be due to a defective self-incompatibility mechanism. In any case, if any natural hybrids show up, their phenotype should be radically different that S. corneliomulleri.
I grew S. peruvianum inter-planted with S. habrochaites, so I'll watch for natural hybrids to show up in those populations. Should be easy to see since the parents phenotypes are so different from each other.
I'm not interested in "introgression lines". I'm interested in merging complete sets of DNA, not just a few genes here and there.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 17, 2017 1:06:16 GMT -5
I'm not interested in "introgression lines". I'm interested in merging complete sets of DNA, not just a few genes here and there. fair enoguh. But i do wonder if "introgression lines" could be used a bridge for hard to make crosses. In the case of S. Pennellii perhaps one of these introgression lines would be more compatible genetically than a standard tomato line. But i'm just thinking out loud. I really have no idea if that would be the case or just a waste of time.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 17, 2017 10:44:01 GMT -5
An introgression line might only contain a segment of DNA representing 2% of the DNA in the wild species. That means that each line is around 98% domestic tomatoes. So I don't want to spend my time to try to obtain 50 introgression lines to try to find something in one of them that might be useful. It's easier for me to encourage the bees to attempt to make tens of thousands of crosses, and then watch for naturally occurring hybrids. I'm very good at watching. Not very good at planning, follow-through, researching, record keeping, or manual pollination.
However, some of the rootstocks like Multifort, or Maxifort would be interesting to me, because they are 50% S. habrochaites.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 17, 2017 11:17:09 GMT -5
I grew LA 3969 from Darrel as part of my frost tolerance trials. I keep growing it, but haven't got any crosses made with it, and it's too long season to thrive in my garden.
S. habrochaites, S. peruvianum, and S. pimpinellifolium produced plenty of fruits last year.
S. corneliomulleri flowered early, but set very few fruits.
S. pennellii seemed to be very short season.
I don't have accurate DTM for the hybrids, because I grew them in a cold greenhouse, and an inadequate cold bedroom window, but even then about 139 days from seed to ripe fruit.
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Post by walt on Jan 17, 2017 13:59:15 GMT -5
Keen101. I agree that introgression lines are possible bridges. Not able to grow ut 50 or so lines to get the one(s) that MIGHT be easier to cross. And how much easier to cross? I should say I'm not able to grow them out, but rather I have other priorities just now. In 1981 I grew one S. pennellii plant to maturity from about 25 seeds from the Tomato Genetics Resource Center. I grew it in a large pot and tended it as well as I could. It didn't grow well. I got one fruit using its pollen on a domestic tomato. The seedlings were grown in the ground and never made it to the 4 leaf stage. This was in Niger and growing conditions were not good. In the dry season, when this was done, humidity got down to 4%. But the hybrids didn't survive, and at least any domestic tomatoes did survive to maturity under these conditions, given good soil and lots of water.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 17, 2017 18:41:22 GMT -5
I took the time today to write down a pedigree for the promiscuous-pollination and self-incompatible projects. I have plants for many of these currently growing in my bedroom window, and seeds for later generations waiting to be planted. The seeds represented by the box labeled BC1 may be self-incompatible. There are likely to be many highly promiscuous flowering types represented in the other two boxes. A single arrow represents pollen flow. Double arrows indicate offspring with perhaps some selection or selfing during one or more generations. I knew that the pedigree was complex. I didn't realize that there may be up to four different 7-way crosses in the population. I feel sad that the Jagodka, DX52-12, and Hill clades are not represented in this pedigree. Perhaps I'll be able to add them in later on.
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Post by philagardener on Jan 17, 2017 22:12:20 GMT -5
I think steev is way ahead of you in growing out WTF tomatoes.
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Post by steev on Jan 17, 2017 23:24:42 GMT -5
You flatter me.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 18, 2017 20:11:26 GMT -5
Yes, very comical! quite the laugh. WTF => OH My!
Way to stick it to the man Joseph!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 18, 2017 20:22:57 GMT -5
At the end of the 2015 growing season, I found two sunroot clones that were better than 15M-WOW. They got interesting names!!!
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