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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 16, 2018 9:48:24 GMT -5
I have not noticed any volunteer tomato seedlings, though they may appear later in the season. That area has been covered by some leaf litter, so that may be part of it.
I find small seeded things, like carrots here have a much better time when i just sprinkle them on top of the soil. It seems it's way too easy to bury them too deep. Plus it simulates how they would naturally be planted.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 16, 2018 11:19:22 GMT -5
William: Most of my BC1 plants have flower buds. They are growing in 1.5" pots! Looking at the flowers might give a clue whether it's a hybrid, or mixed up seed. There is one plant in the (domestic X habrochaites) population that is looking like a corneliomulleri hybrid. It is starting to flower. Tomatillos have been volunteering in my garden for more than a decade. This year, I direct seeded a row in a different section of the garden, so that I can do selection on them for something other than volunteerism. keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.): How many F1 plants did you grow last year of (domestic X pennellii)? I'm wondering how many S alleles that population might contribute to the project.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 16, 2018 13:26:56 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.): How many F1 plants did you grow last year of (domestic X pennellii)? I'm wondering how many S alleles that population might contribute to the project. Hmm. I think I had about 7 or 8 give or take. One was in the main patch, the others were in a row further away. I have a new F1 line this year with a different domestic mother. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 21, 2018 22:53:16 GMT -5
The (Big Hill X Neandermato) cross that gilbert attempted, via natural cross pollination, seems to have been successful. Of the 9 plants that are old enough to be flowering, one of them looks typical of a (domestic X habrochaites) hybrid. There are about 33 leaflets per leaf compared to about 11 on Big Hill. The style is long/thin, not fat/short like in Big Hill. The inflorescence is split into two equal halves like in Neandermato. There are an additional 72 plants that are not old enough to be flowering yet. I am excited. That was my highest priority cross for this year, and it's looking like it's already been made. Thanks gilbert! I'm super excited about finding one plant. Perhaps I'll find a few more. I have attempted manual pollinations for (Big Hill X Neandermato)X(domestic X pennellii). I also attempted manual pollinations for (Big Hill X (domestic X pennellii)). Other high priority crosses are ((domestic X habrochaites)X(domestic X pennellii)), (habrochaites X (domestic X habrochaites)), (habrochaites X (domestic X pennellii). Volunteer gardeners are attempting those crosses for me in isolation beds around the valley. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 22, 2018 9:37:59 GMT -5
william i wanted to share seed with you and others for the cheesmaniae and galapagense but i didnt think i had enough seed yet from last year. I bareley got one plant of each to set viable fruit. I dont think they are used to being grown away from the islands they are adapted to. But we are one step closer to more adapted seed now. Hopefully this season i will get more seed from the unexpected selection that happened last year. I did share pure tgrc seed with joseph last year so that's why he has some. We will get you some at some point and others im sure.
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Post by imgrimmer on May 22, 2018 13:22:48 GMT -5
william could you show a picture of your direct seeded ones? When did you seed, how cold was it then? Thank you! Some of my volunteers set the first flower buds now. Not that late compared with pregrown ones.
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Post by gilbert on May 22, 2018 15:37:56 GMT -5
That's great! Mine are still too small to see if I have any hybrids. I just (finally) got them transplanted out of the potting soil that I think was stunting them.
Interestingly, for me neandermato seedlings are always weak compared to other tomatoes, though they catch up and turn into huge plants later.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 22, 2018 16:03:01 GMT -5
I was doing manual pollinations today, and noticed an odd plant. When I checked it's tag, it turned out to be a second that looks like (Big Hill X Neandermato), Yay!
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 22, 2018 19:48:58 GMT -5
I work as a botanist but I can never remember all the terminology. If you constantly work with a group you do learn it. For this key I had to look up Sympodia using Google: " sym·po·di·um simˈpōdēəm/Submit nounBOTANY plural noun: sympodia the apparent main axis or stem of a plant, made up of successive secondary axes due to the death of each season's terminal bud, as in the vine." Better yet than this key would be if TGRC has Species descriptions online. Comparing descriptions may be necessary with hybrids. There are two sorts of descriptions- the very long one found when a new species is published and shorter ones in floras. We would only need the latter, but the former should exist for every described species of plant. Though not necessarily in English it could be in a combination of Latin and Spanish for instance and unavailable online. Found this online by accident while looking for the article for the other cheesmaniae thread. It has some nice fruit descriptions i did not see on the other key. naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/2773/PDF |
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Post by imgrimmer on May 23, 2018 12:05:36 GMT -5
william could you show a picture of your direct seeded ones? When did you seed, how cold was it then? Thank you! Some of my volunteers set the first flower buds now. Not that late compared with pregrown ones.  Here is a blurry picture I just posted to permies.com of a Blue Ambrosia tomato seedling. I planned to seed this year about twenty days before the last average frost which is May 15th. So I guess around April 25th. We haven't had a frost since well before the average last frost though. We had a very cold spring then it got very warm rapidly. Last year the seedlings survived one frost at an inch high. This year no frost after they germinated. The volunteers are no further along. It will be a long time before I have flower buds on these! The reason I chose to direct seed so much of this variety this year (450 linear row feet) is it had the most promiscuous looking flowers in my 2017 garden so I am hoping it will have a lot of hybrids. a picture of my biggest volunteer with small flower buds. It germinated around end of April. We had a really warm spring this year.  |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 24, 2018 14:20:36 GMT -5
I have some volunteer tomatoes sprouting from the wild tomato patch! Mostly in the area of peruvianum last year, but also in close area to the pimps and perhaps even pennellii hybrid. I tried to leave as many fruits on the plants as i collected when possible. Peruvianum had plenty, pimps i collected very few as i was not impressed, and pennellii F1 hybrid had plenty.
I almost stepped on them when i discovered them. And then had to run as i got pummeled by rain. Curious to see what happens. Most are growing where i planted the galapagense this year (where peruvianum was last year).
Since im doing so badly at planting tomatoes this year, perhaps some of these volunteers will be interesting.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 30, 2018 1:45:04 GMT -5
My peruvianum patch volunteered so well, that I have been weeding out the smaller plants, and/or those that germinated later.
Today, I planted the last of the tomatoes for the promiscuously pollinating tomato project. About 500 plants total. I planted the corneliomulleri plants, and then the peruvianum plants into a row. I'm intending to attempt to convert them into a complex, rather than maintaining them as separate species. I'm also intending to screen the planting to see if any obvious inter-species (peruvianum/corneliomulleri) hybrids show up this year. My method, is that my accession of corneliomulleri are small/delicate plants, and my peruvianum are large vigorous plants, so I'll be looking for vigorous plants among the corneliomulleri. There are also differences in flower shape.
The peruvianum/corneliomulleri row is 9 feet from the row containing habrochaites BC1 and BCE-off-type, and from F2 (domestic X habrochaites). I planted about 25 plants of F2(domestic X habrochaites) then 3 plants of F2(domestic X pennellii), repeating as needed. I planted less than a foot apart, in order to screen a lot of plants without devoting much space. Yes, it will be a jungle later on. Oh well.
Some plants were flowering already among the F2(Domestic X habrochaites) population. I selected plants with exerted stigmas, and planted them together into the same isolated bed. The bed also contains corneliomulleri, peruvianum, habrochaites, cheesmanii, F2(domestic X pennellii), (Big Hill X Neandermato), domestic with exerted stigmas, etc.
So far, all of the F2(domestic X pennellii) flowers have been open with exerted styles. Just the type of flowers I want for the wildly promiscuous tomato project. The F2(domestic X habrochaites) flowers have all had connected/closed anther cones. Most have non-exerted styles. It's looking like the pennellii crosses are a much better choice for selecting for promiscuous flowers.
I'm really looking forward to the next generation of (Big Hill X Neandermato). I also did a lot of manual pollinations for (Big Hill X (domestic X pennellii).
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Post by gilbert on May 30, 2018 21:22:27 GMT -5
Do any of you notice Penellii/ habrochaites X domestic seedlings to be rather wimpy plants compared to domestic tomatoes? Or are they more vigorous for you?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 30, 2018 21:26:47 GMT -5
Do any of you notice Penellii/ habrochaites X domestic seedlings to be rather wimpy plants compared to domestic tomatoes? Or are they more vigorous for you? Seems to me, like the seedlings of interspecies crosses start out slower and more delicate. |
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Post by imgrimmer on May 31, 2018 9:08:44 GMT -5
Yeah I agree my interspecies crosses from Joseph and Andrew are both growing quite a bit slower than the pure domestics So does mine. Fern x habro are slow. Among Penelli x Domestic are some faster but compared to all domestic tomatoes are they really slow growers. But what counts is fruit set.  Crosses down on the left 1 single Domestic x habrochaites beside Penelli x Domestic hybrids Pepper hybrids far right domestic tomatoes |
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