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Post by khoomeizhi on Jun 28, 2014 12:38:41 GMT -5
i'm such a fan of everything i've had from this genus that i decided to try as many crosses between species as possible. i've got some specific goals (bigger tastier hardy perennials, for one) but will be interested in any happy accidents as well.
at any rate, last year was the first i had what seemed like some decent successes. fruit filling out, good-looking seeds inside. this year i started a few of every cross i made last year. now i'm wondering if perhaps many if not all of the 'successes' self-pollinated before or as i was removing anthers from the flowers-to-be-pollinated (even though if it seemed like they were shedding pollen at all, i wouldn't use that flower). i guess i'm wondering when i should expect whatever hybrid characteristics to show up, since as of yet, everything looks likes its mother. things are still pretty small yet, no flowering or anything, but of the characteristics i can judge, there doesn't seem to be any variation...i'm pretty new to the breeding world, so i'm not sure what to expect. is this the kind of thing that doesn't show up until the f2? do i need to wait for flowering/fruiting to see anything? i figured things like the amount and length of hairs or even leaf shape (though there is admittedly not much variation within the genus on the latter) might be clues to whether i had a successful cross or a self-pollination.
what say you?
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Post by diane on Jul 18, 2014 23:51:54 GMT -5
In the three weeks since you posted, have you noticed anything that might indicate a hybrid?
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Post by khoomeizhi on Jul 19, 2014 14:04:37 GMT -5
sadly, no. guess i just need to keep trying.
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Post by templeton on Jul 22, 2014 0:08:29 GMT -5
K,
no experience with this genus at all, but I've read that tomatillos need to outcross. Would this indicate that most of them are heterozygous? And would this mean that you might need to wait until F2 homozygous traits turn up? Musing out loud, really...
T
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Post by khoomeizhi on Jul 26, 2014 4:26:38 GMT -5
i'd think that some hint would show up in f1 though. wouldn't being heterozygous and identical to the mother suggest that ALL those mother-genes are dominant? which is doubtful on its own, but even moreso if i've got examples of AxB and BxA, right? crosses both ways, still looking like mom?
musing is all i can do at the moment about this, too.
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ds
gopher
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Post by ds on Sept 5, 2014 14:02:55 GMT -5
khoom',
Did anything interesting happen with your physalis crosses?
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Post by khoomeizhi on Sept 9, 2014 4:24:16 GMT -5
khoom', Did anything interesting happen with your physalis crosses? nah. got a few new ones to check out next year, but everything from last year must have self-pollinated. |
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ds
gopher
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Post by ds on Sept 15, 2014 12:55:08 GMT -5
khoom', Did anything interesting happen with your physalis crosses? nah. got a few new ones to check out next year, but everything from last year must have self-pollinated. Well, I'll be interested to see if anything happens next year. I've saved a bunch of seed from my Physallis sp. this year and was planning on attempting some crosses next season. Hopefully I can learn from your successes and setbacks. Make sure to post in 2015 and I'll do the same. |
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Post by raymondo on Sept 16, 2014 5:43:07 GMT -5
Just been looking at chromosome numbers for various Physalis species and it looks like P. ixocarpa (tomatillo), P. pruinosa (ground cherry) and P. pubescens (if this one is a separate species - some class it as P. pruinosa) all have the same chromosome count of 12 pairs. P. peruviana (cape gooseberry) appears to have 24 pairs of chromosomes. This suggests that crosses among the first three are more likely than a cross between the last and any of the other three.
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Post by trixtrax on Sept 19, 2014 17:27:15 GMT -5
My hope is to combine two species together to form a 24 and cross to P. peruviana
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Post by cletus on Aug 11, 2015 9:18:43 GMT -5
trixtrax, polyploidy has been induced in tomatos by simple decapitation + petrolatum at a rate of about 30%. I was thinking of first doing a P. heterophylla x aunt molly's, stabilizing it for a few years, then polyploidizing the seedlings and try to cross with peruvianum. I wonder if anyone is still working with Tim Peters physalis hybrids.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 11, 2015 12:47:37 GMT -5
i didn't know what a cape gooseberry was until i googled it. But it being mentioned reminded me of this novel cross. Perhaps you can get some ideas off of it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jostaberry |
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Post by cletus on Aug 16, 2015 12:13:54 GMT -5
Khoomeizhi, how is the propagation of the tasty wild Physalis going? Have you tried its seedlings fruit yet? That one sounds like a good candidate to tetraploid and cross with peruvianium. I heard tomatillos are difficult to cross with other Physalis, but can't help wonder how far it would go with a little help like polyploidy and grafting prior to pollination. In peppers, the simple act of grafting can effect fruit size/shape for multiple generations: www.researchgate.net/publication/225284489_Molecular_studies_of_inheritable_grafting_induced_changes_in_pepper_%28Capsicun_annuum%29_fruit_shapeThere seems to be a lot of things going for progress in this genus: ease of polyploidization, several hardy relatives with wide ranging diverse populations, ease of graft hybridization (most experiments have been done within Solanaceae), and some nice cultivars. |
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Post by cletus on Aug 16, 2015 20:45:07 GMT -5
Looking a little bit at Physalis phylogeny, tomatillo is the section Angulatae. This section is mostly annuals, but does include the perennial P. crassifolia. JLHudson lists crassifolia as hardy to zone 6. Not sure how it would perform outside of the dry zones, but it could be a candidate for creating a hardy perennial tomatillo. Next year I will try decapitation+petrolatum to attempt polyploidy in crassifolia and some tomatillos.
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Post by nicollas on Aug 17, 2015 1:37:01 GMT -5
This year i'm growing the perennial Physalis subglabrata, but there are a lot of questions about this one, as it is sometime called P. longifolia, and that it seems that sometime the fruit is described as green whereas other times and frommy plant it is deep purple. Also some doubts about hardiness.  |
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