Arbequina olive?

[flowerweaver]

In my quest to replace trees this fall that the tornado took out, I've been looking into some fruit-bearing trees. On my recent travels I purchased an Arbequina olive tree, which should do well in my alkaline soil and arid climate. I understand it produces the kind of olives that must be brined or pressed into oil. The nursery told me it would get over 30 feet tall, but in doing some research online I see heights shown not as tall--anywhere from 10 to 20 feet, and that it can even be container grown and kept small--and widths 5 to 15 feet.

Is anyone growing it, and does anyone know its ultimate height and width? That information will make a difference on where it gets planted.

[steev]

I've planted ~10 olive trees, only three of which haven't died or lost their grafts. There are established olives near the farm, but none are more than 15' X 15'; I've no idea of their variety; they look all the same. Clearly, growth habit is influenced both by variety and environment; I have a client in the East Bay who has "fruitless" olives that are ~50'. Another species on my list of things to work on, when I'm more on the farm to help them through the difficult months.

There are NO olives that don't need curing or pressing to be useful; I think you must never have tried to eat a fresh one. Where I was a kid, in Stockton, that was a standard dare, olives being common street-trees.

[flowerweaver]

You are correct I've never tried eating an olive fresh. This nursery said that mission olives 'and some of the others' didn't need to be cured--I'm not convinced their staff was knowledgeable. There are a few olive orchards popping up around these parts so I know they do well. The only thing I know about Arbequina is they are small, don't ripen at the same time, and are the highest in fat content, so are used predominantly in the making of olive oil. I think they account for the largest percentage of olive grown in California, so I'll go by your 15'x 15'.

[blueadzuki]

There is in my kitchen now a jar of Sunfoods Sun Dried Peruvian Olives, which claim that, as they are picked fully ripe they do not NEED curing to be eaten. Not sure if I believe that. I am no person to judge it, as I don't like even normal olives (though oddly I do like Chinese snow cabbage; which can have a vaguely olivey taste) But my sister (who I bought the jar for) might.

BTW if she doesn't, has anyone here ever tried to cure DRIED olives? I found plenty of instructions on curing your own olives online, but they all seem to work on the assumption you are starting with fresh green olives, not dried ripe ones. I suppose pickling would re-hydrate them, but do not know. Anyone have experience with dried ones?

[richardw]

One thing ive always wondered about growing Olives is,the centuries old trees of Spain,Greece etc would have had to have been seed grown and sown direct, but all the plants that are available now days are cutting grown,the trees of the Mediterranean area dont appear to be irrigated so because they are likely to be seed grown they must have deep tap roots,the cutting grown one on the other hand dont grow tap roots so around my area they need to be irrigated even as a mature tree.
No one in this country sells seed grown Olive trees but i could see a demand for people who want trees that can once established will look after themselves.

[blueadzuki]

And they are good at that. There was a Lybian olive (no, sorry, Lebanese, I always get confused at to which country is "Liban" in French)I used to be very fond of which claimed that their olives were from a grove of trees that was 4-5,000 years old and had not been re-planted once, it was all the original trees. And I saw no reason to doubt them.

[richardw]

I would love to get my hands on seed from those 4-5,000 years old trees,would they have to be fresh seed to grow?fruit that been brined wouldn't grow would it not?

[blueadzuki]

I very much doubt they would Even if the salt didn't get through the shell I think most commercial olives have heat involved at some point, to kill any lingering bacteria. I would be like when I tried to grow the pits out of some picked Thai peaches, or the candied yumberries , or the Mei plums in the syrup.

And I realize I left a critical word out of my message, what I was getting was olive OIL, not olives themselves (I actually don't like olives). I never had any pits they presumably all stayed in Lebanon. But if you want to take a trip, the region was called Batroun.

The pits in those Peruvian olives I mentioned earlier may still be good though, since they are just sun dried.

[flowerweaver]

There are a handful of ripe olives on my new, and yet unplanted, olive tree. I wonder if I could grow more trees from them. Anybody know if there's anything I need to do other than sticking them in some pots of soil to get them to germinate?

[steev]

First off: are those Peruvian olives ONLY sun-dried, not salt-cured like Greek Kalamata olives; in which case, I bet they're icky. Even Greek Kalamata olives are an acquired taste, having a fairly high level of "yuck".

Second: those Peruvian olives were brought from Europe (doubtless by the Spanish, so there's no reason to think they're "special"); if they were "sweet", I think they'd have been heavily carried back to Europe for planting (sometimes the Spanish were assholes, but they weren't stupid),

Third: seed-grown trees have been the norm of Mediterranean culture since forever, readily graftable.

[blueadzuki]

1 That's what the label says (okay the label itself doesn't say anything, but that is what the blurb for the product on the manufacturer (sunfoods) says www.sunfood.com/olives-peruvian-10-5-oz-sun-dried-raw-certified-organic.html. I have never opened the jar, nor would I. As I said I don't even like cured olives, so the odds of me liking uncured are basically nil. To be perfectly honest, the only reason I bought the jar was that I thought that "Peruvian olives" were in fact some odd South American tree species that was called "olive" because of fruit shape or use i.e. were not actually olives. Like "Chinese Date" (jujube).

2. You are most likely right. I was reporting what THEY said, not what I think. A lot of the web chatter is along the lines of the classic "These are an obscure hidden treasure, which until now was reserved for the local market. But now we are giving the rest of the world a chance to share this wonder with us." Typical corporate bull, especially for a product trying to deal with being outside of what much of the world would consider the "normal zone" of the product. Bit like tea from Bolivia, Kenya, South Africa, Georgia and here, Hawai'i and South Carolina. Or that sugarcane industry they have in Louisiana.

[flowerweaver]

I've collected the ripe olives off my newly planted Arbequina olive tree. Any recommendations on how to sow them? Apparently they aren't bitter enough to deter one of my dogs from eating one off the coffee table moments ago! But then, she's joyfully eaten all sorts of things a dog shouldn't.

[verdeperto]

Oct 3, 2014 10:37:06 GMT -5 flowerweaver said:

I've collected the ripe olives off my newly planted Arbequina olive tree. Any recommendations on how to sow them? Apparently they aren't bitter enough to deter one of my dogs from eating one off the coffee table moments ago! But then, she's joyfully eaten all sorts of things a dog shouldn't.

Unless you insist on having them from seed, you can easily root olive tree branches using the normal procedures. From seed (as richardw states) you will have a deeper taproot, which usually proves useful in extreme drought for other species, but I never saw an established olive tree perishing from lack of water. Also, I remember reading in an old document, that in order to get them to grow from seed you had either to break the seed or soak it in a quicklime solution, but I assume scarification would also work.

richardw
One thing ive always wondered about growing Olives is,the centuries old trees of Spain,Greece etc would have had to have been seed grown and sown direct, but all the plants that are available now days are cutting grown,the trees of the Mediterranean area dont appear to be irrigated so because they are likely to be seed grown they must have deep tap roots,the cutting grown one on the other hand dont grow tap roots so around my area they need to be irrigated even as a mature tree.

No one in this country sells seed grown Olive trees but i could see a demand for people who want trees that can once established will look after themselves.

In the old days, good varieties were frequently grafted in seed grown wild olive Olea europaea sylvestris (even the bible has some metaphors on that). It is common to find young trees growing under the wild olive, but for the regular more productive varieties, it is a rare event. Presumably, the thicker outer shell of the seed of these new varieties impedes germination. It was normal procedure to supply oneself with the seedlings and suckers of these wild olives, for rootstock purpose. Or after fire consumed an area, old trees would produce multiple sprouts from the remaining leftover roots, and farmers would transplant these and graft in their chosen varieties. It was also common to top work the naturally occurring wild olive in situ, with these better varieties. 

Posted by richardwSep 11, 2014 at 9:06pm

I would love to get my hands on seed from those 4-5,000 years old trees,would they have to be fresh seed to grow?fruit that been brined wouldn't grow would it not?

I can send you some seeds of the oldest trees I have access to, and also seeds from the suckers of the wild olive rootstocks on which they thrive. 

Posted by steevAug 22, 2014 at 5:12am

I've planted ~10 olive trees, only three of which haven't died or lost their grafts. There are established olives near the farm, but none are more than 15' X 15'; I've no idea of their variety; they look all the same. Clearly, growth habit is influenced both by variety and environment; I have a client in the East Bay who has "fruitless" olives that are ~50'. Another species on my list of things to work on, when I'm more on the farm to help them through the difficult months.



There are NO olives that don't need curing or pressing to be useful; I think you must never have tried to eat a fresh one. Where I was a kid, in Stockton, that was a standard dare, olives being common street-trees.

On old trees, apical growth consumes too much of plant resources, diminishing fruit production. In order to both increase production and facilitate harvest, one must prune these upward branches. It is on lateral second year branches that production really takes. If you prune old wood too much, the following year production decreases, but the second year it is very good. So you can heavy prune half your trees every other year when harvesting (which also facilitates this endeavor, as you can pick the olives in the ground). You will have a yearly big crop of half your trees and amazing fire wood for the winter (actually best time for pruning is later on, but I need the wood before that). Sheep and goat love the leaves so you can give them the whole branches to "clean". Also of notice is the ability of these smaller branches to burn very hot with very little ash, even when strait from the tree, being traditionally used to heat up the wood oven, while adding a wonderful aroma to the subsequent food.



On curing processes, there are several, mostly depending on how mature your olives are, and how eager you are on eating them. 

J

[richardw]

Oct 4, 2014 2:28:33 GMT -5 verdeperto said:

In the old days, good varieties were frequently grafted in seed grown wild olive Olea europaea sylvestris (even the bible has some metaphors on that). It is common to find young trees growing under the wild olive, but for the regular more productive varieties, it is a rare event. Presumably, the thicker outer shell of the seed of these new varieties impedes germination. It was normal procedure to supply oneself with the seedlings and suckers of these wild olives, for rootstock purpose. Or after fire consumed an area, old trees would produce multiple sprouts from the remaining leftover roots, and farmers would transplant these and graft in their chosen varieties. It was also common to top work the naturally occurring wild olive in situ, with these better varieties. 



[/quote]

But to get 'more productive varieties' that would have to have been breed thus grown from seed,or are they more like apples in that each seed throws wide dissimilarities and that 'more productive varieties' happen to be chance discoveries.

[steev]

Excellent information, verdeperto.