B. napus grafting

[mickt]

I gotta question....
I grew out my F2 cross of every commercial variety of B. napus I could find, mostly including Mr. Mortons work as well as many from Adaptive Seeds and have been selecting for winter hardiness here in north Idaho, flavor, and broccili raab in the spring (such as from the great variety Russian Hunger Gap). This wonderful crop gives us greens for about 9 months of the year, and has become a staple. I have selected for seed approximately 50 plants this year.
Three plants, however, grew too close together and fused at the base into one rootstock, almost as if they had been grafted. I selected these three for seed and am wondering if each of these plants will hold a separate genotype, or if the genes will come from the roots. My inclination is to say that each flower stalk will  contain separate genes. Am I right?
I took a photo, spent 1/2 hour trying to get it on the computer only to have it say "the forum is using too much attachment space... can not complete." sorry... guess you have to use your imagination.

[khumlee]

Many works on these possibilities were study by Lucien Daniel an old french scientist, and do not show that dna or genes can pass from root to the graft ,but only matérial like flavor, sugar and so on.
buT in the plants world everything seem to be possible !
Other things possible is that the graft could develop few new phenotypes plants in the next seeds generation, because the root systeme feed the graft with a different way from it's own root systeme. This new environnement could induce new expression in the next seed generation, but probably not induce by DNA or genes from root systeme.

bulbnrose.x10.mx/Heredity/Daniel/DanielBiblio.html

[steev]

Russian Hunger Gap broccoli mixed with wild mustard broccoli makes fine chow!

[Carol Deppe]

Mickt--I wouldn't expect the nuclear genes of three plants fused at the base to be able to migrate from one plant to another. However, sometimes part of the phenotype of a plant is associated with viruses or other microorganisms it is carrying. One of the recent realizations in plant genetics and breeding is that associated microorganisms matter way more than we realized, and are sometimes responsible for drought tolerance, disease resistance, and other characteristics that we had long assumed were all determined by the genes of the plant itself. If the trait you're looking at is determined by these microorganisms, it's quite possible that they could migrate from one variety/plant to another through the fused base.

Another thing that we've been learning recently is that the control status of genes can often be inherited. So, for example, two lines might have the same genes for a trait, but control genes might be heritably turned on more in one than in the other, giving different phenotypes. I suspect that changes in control gene status account for why we often see adaptation of varieties to our specific growing conditions when we save our own seed in just a few years and with relatively modest numbers of plants--times and numbers really too small for new mutations or even much in the way of recombination to account for it.(In any genetic control system with positive feedback loops, once a gene is turned on or off it stays that way, and some such situations persist through mitotic and even meiotic division. It takes some external trigger to reset things. I suspect extreme cold, heat, or drought conditions might serve to reset things and give rise to at least some plants that seem to have suddenly adapted to the new condition. So plants can have ways of adapting that are not quite so permanent and slow-evolving as just through changes in nuclear genes.) It's still too early to say exactly where heritable control status fits into what we see and what happens when we breed plants. However, I could imagine that if three different fused plants had different control statuses for a gene, that they might be able to influence each other and make a change in the phenotype you're seeing.

[mickt]

I am really inept at computers... which is why I havent taken much part in this forum.... but I think this link will take you to a photo of it.

www.flickr.com/photos/128403007@N05/15717979261/

Thanks Carol Deppe, that explains alot. It also explains why garlic can change over the years as well as potatoes. I have seen massive changes take place in my garlic crop specifically... and not just with size. Number of cloves... flavor...

I will save small amounts of seed from all three of these plants... i had a MASSIVE attack from flea beetles this year, and am saving seed from the survivors. Have never seen anything like it... was almost apocalyptic. 

[mickt]

Since I figured out how to share photos I thought Id share some photos of my Beet landrace as well...

www.flickr.com/photos/128403007@N05/15535142690/
www.flickr.com/photos/128403007@N05/15100582503/

I grow beets as a sustenance crop... I plant them in rows and eat the thinnings all year until there is only one plant per 6 inches or so. Then I let them get bigger and hold them over the winter in a clamp. I cook them over the winter (boiling) for my family and also shred them in a beet shredder to feed to the milk cows and oxen. They grow easily with no amendments and no bugs have ever touched them. To me, beets are a backup staple crop in case the corn ever fails. 

This landrace is a 3rd generation cross of Lutz, Detroit Dark Red, Cylindra, Egyptian, and then about 30 other accensions from the USDA. Also I mixed in the "Beet Mix" from Sandhill. I crossed the ARS stuff into the landrace but find myself breeding all the junk out now (like hairiness and woodiness). I like large but soft and sweet. 

Not sure if anyones interested...