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Post by squishysquashy on Jan 1, 2015 1:44:52 GMT -5
Hi everyone! New gardener here (3rd year) and new to eating garden-type foods.
I am looking for a good moschata variety. To me, "good" means both delicious and pretty to look at. I think Musque de Provence meets the "pretty" criteria and I have heard a lot of good things about this variety. Many say that it is sweet, and that in France they serve it by the slice at markets. Others say it is bland. I bought one early in the fall, both to decorate my fireplace and to open up for soup or pie later. I also bought a Jarrahdale and several butternuts, which look like Walthams judging by their size and shape. I really like the butternuts. I use them in the best pumpkin pie ever (Carol Deppe's recipe) and I also made a killer squash bisque with them, and have come to judge all other squashes against them for taste. (Acorns were bland, Red Kuri was nasty bitter mush...) These taste trials were done with bought squashes, either locally grown or organic from the store. My garden is not big enough to do any real grow out trials with squash. Actually, I live in an apartment and grow all kinds of stuff in my mother-in-law's small yard. I did successfully grow one butternut this past season.
But back to the Provence squash. I opened mine recently and it was terrifying. Not sure if it was because I had to use a meat cleaver and a big mallet to open it, or that when I opened it, all the seeds were sprouting inside and it tasted awful. I roasted it as I do butternuts. No sweetness whatsoever, extremely dry and stringy, and the flavor was weird with a hint of bitter. I have to say that I was impressed with the deep orange color of the flesh, which is a plus.
Question #1: Was it awful because I let it sit too long? Do moschata squashes improve with storage to a certain point and then deteriorate in flavor rapidly beyond that point?
#2: Are there eating quality strains in the U.S. or are they only in France? Has anyone here worked with strains of MDP for eating?
#3: Has anyone been working on a more manageable sized strain of MDP? I like large squashes, but 25 lbs is a little too large for my family of 2.
I have been reading about a lot of the breeding projects being done on this forum. It sounds like a lot of fun. I wish I had the space to help or do my own projects.
Thanks, Emily
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 1, 2015 2:51:26 GMT -5
squishysquashy: Welcome to the forum. It sounds to me like your fruit had deteriorated too much before you cut it. Stored too warm and damp I'd guess. Was it rotting and you didn't notice when you cut it? I usually store my butternut/moschata squash for 4 months before I start eating them. Not because I think the quality gets better, but because they store better than the other species I grow, and I want to eat the others before they rot. Pepo squash often get bitter tasting when stored for a few months. I haven't noticed that with other species, they just loose sweetness. I select against stringy squash, and usually for drier flesh. Bitter squash always get culled, regardless of other traits.
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Post by aineo on Jan 1, 2015 7:14:46 GMT -5
I'll be watching this thread with interest. I am a big fan of the looks of the MdP, but I have yet to have what I would call a successful season with it. I have attempted growing it twice, and both years the squash vine borers decimated the plants. I did get one squash off of the vine, though a little early, the first year. This year I have much more room to grow though, and I am moving the squash to a different area. This will once again be one of the varieties I grow, and I am hoping to at least have some pest resistant plants to choose from. As far as size goes, there is an interesting older thread on the subject: alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/6064/controlling-squash-size.
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Post by ilex on Jan 1, 2015 9:59:03 GMT -5
At least here in Spain where we have many varieties, pepos are for zuccs or hog feed, mostachas mostly for soup/cream and maxima for oven etc... Some mostachas are quite sweet but nothing compares to good maximas, just another league. I've had some brix out of the scale, sweet as a candy. They do produce less, mature later and need an earlier planting than mostachas. Mostachas will give a good crop in less than ideal climatic conditions, our maximas will not.
Maximas also store longer.
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Post by 12540dumont on Jan 1, 2015 13:45:49 GMT -5
The thing about buying squash in the market is that you really don't know what you're buying. I've seen Cinderella squash which tastes nasty labled as MdP in an organic market. You don't know if the seed was crossed up. I think MdP tastes best when eaten within 2 months of picking. If I buy one, I eat it right away as I don't know how old it will be. Most supermarket squash is sold for display!
If you don't have a cleaver, you can always stab the top and roast the thing whole. I use a cleaver and a mallet...err I mean, Leo uses a cleaver and a mallet. Piacentina is one of my favorite squashes. Butternut is also an all time favorite. Both Joseph and Oxbow have great varieties of this.
I've grown hundreds of squash. Last few years have seen an absolute breakout of squash bugs. Today we had a real freeze, so maybe next year will be better. Maybe also the conventional farmer next door will not grow squash. I can hope can't I?
Last summer I grew Red Kuri, and everyone told me it tasted like roasted chestnuts. Not all squash improves by storing. Unless of course you're at oxbow's house and can decorate it, roll it around and hide it behind the coach for several months.
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Post by ilex on Jan 1, 2015 15:30:12 GMT -5
Being polite, I wasn't impressed with red kuri. Won't grow it again.
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Post by squishysquashy on Jan 1, 2015 16:11:30 GMT -5
Just fyi, I have heavy pressure from borers in June. They kill any pepos, so I try to plant early enough to get a little zucchini before they hit. I have read that maximas prefer somewhat cooler weather, so I might not be able to plant later in the summer in order to avoid the borers because it would be too hot by that point. That's why I am looking at moschatas first. I am going to try a max (Sunshine F1) this year just to see what happens, planting early with the zucchinis.
True, I probably should have tried to eat the darn thing when I bought it, as it was already quite tan compared to others of the same variety in the pile. It did have one little rot spot on one lobe, but I thought that was because I had bruised it. Still don't think it would have been good eating because it WAS sold as an ornamental. Obviously this farm does not breed for taste, and their squashes are sold at Whole Foods in a big pile of ornamental squash...I was just going out on a limb trying to eat it and hoping I would get lucky. That's why I am looking for a strain of MDP that has been specifically maintained for its eating quality. Any ideas? Seed companies that maintain that quality, or people on here who maintain their own strain that I can buy seed from?
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Post by squishysquashy on Jan 1, 2015 16:12:25 GMT -5
Thanks, aineo, I did skim over that thread a while back, but maybe I'm due for a re-read
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Post by ilex on Jan 1, 2015 16:23:20 GMT -5
Here, we start with mostachas, and then maximas. I start with them in December. They get better in storage.
I'm surprised about the heat problem with maximas. I'm in Spain.
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Post by squishysquashy on Jan 1, 2015 16:34:45 GMT -5
I really don't know how maximas fare in Texas because I have never grown them. I have only heard that they don't like extreme heat as much as moschatas. How hot does it get in Spain? Also, maxes are more susceptible to squash vine borers than moschatas (though moschatas are not immune either, as I found out). I'm pretty new at gardening and i have little space, so I have to pick what seems like the easiest species to start off with.
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Post by squishysquashy on Jan 1, 2015 17:05:34 GMT -5
Joseph Lofthouse Next year I will see about getting some seed of your "small-fruited" landrace butternut. I'm sure there is enough genetic diversity there to let them adapt to the unpredictability that is Texas. I like small fruits for peeling and making vegetable-type side dishes and big fruits for making large batches of puree.
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Post by blackox on Jan 1, 2015 17:19:54 GMT -5
The Musquees that I grew last year tasted great baked into things, they're very stringy and watery by their own. (The watery-ness could be from my wet growing conditions). I did try one by itself baked and got that same "hint of butter" flavor that you did (I'd describe it as movie theater popcorn). But like I said - they're great in baked goods. I did find my Musquees to rapidly deteriorate in flavor when subjected to even the slightest bit of cold weather. My fruits weighed up to 40lbs (they were planted far apart and in very rich soil), and they were a real pain to carry from the squash patch to the house. The neighbor whom I had originally got the seeds from grew them the same year I did, and his fruits were much smaller (10-15lbs) due to the plants being crowded into his small garden. The plants did do great for him and produce good fruit despite of that.
There is a variety of acorn that is supposed to have good vine borer resistance called Scarchuk's Supreme. It's an older variety from the Southern U.S., has green and white stripes like a Sweet Potato squash. I haven't tried it myself yet, so couldn't say if they taste any better than normal acorns.
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Post by templeton on Jan 1, 2015 21:23:11 GMT -5
Hi Squishy, and welcome. I've only tried MDP once, from a grower who's opinion I value, who said it was just the best. Wasn't impressed! Bland, we thought. A little off topic, but as for breeding projects in restricted space - just pick something that doesn't need much room. I've just been re-reading Carol Deppe's Breed Your Own Vege's book again, and note that her pea breeding patch was tiny. Why not try tomatoes? grow a couple in little pots - you only need a few flowers to do a cross, then grow out the F1, again, in a small pot since one fruit would give you lots of seed to go on with, then just start exploring the F2s - years of fun! If you are smart with your timing, you can grow the parents and the F1 in a single season, and be playing with the F2s next season. T
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Post by allyh on Jan 5, 2015 22:19:13 GMT -5
It may be coincidence but the one time I cut open a squash to find the seeds already sprouting inside it was also very bitter. It was a Galeux D'Eysines (Maxima) squash I grew about 3 or 4 years ago. I had it in storage for ages before I cut it open. There was no sign of rot, and the flesh was still firm, but like your MdP the seeds had started to sprout inside it. I spit out the little bit I'd cut off to try. Blech! It was only fit for the compost pile.
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Post by squishysquashy on Jan 6, 2015 19:56:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm pretty sure what you guys said is what happened to the squash. It was too old. I was expecting it to be either decent or bland, not downright gross. I'll just have to break down and grow the variety myself to see if it is any better. I have enough room to grow two or three large vining squash plants. One of them will have to be MDP next year. Unless I can convince someone to lend me a small field...hmmm...that's an idea...
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