Mirabelles Illegal in US?

[blueadzuki]

Hi all

While wandering around the web today I read something I found truly surprising. Apparently the reason why mirabelles (the small yellow fleshed plums) are so elusive in this country is that they are apparently banned by Federal law. As I understand it, it's part of some deal with France where they are considered a DOP exclusive to the Lorraine region (though oddly, the ban seems to work both ways, we can't grow our own and we can't import any of the French ones)

Does anyone know anything more about this law, like just how exacting it is? Does it only cover professional growing. I know for example that one of the Farmers market stands at Union square has mirabelles (okay, they only have then for one or two weeks, and the supply is low enough I can basically buy them out in one go). But just how heavy does this ban affect things? I was going to try and see what happened when I planted the pits anyway (though probably with this season's pits, the one from last year were not cured properly and got a bit too moldy for me to think them likely to be viable. But does this mean that is the only option for this (if there really is a ban, I would imagine buying saplings from a nursery would be a tall order. Or is the ban so rigorously enforced that even trying THAT is really risky, and if I plant pits I can expect USDA goons descending on my property with chainsaws in a few years?

I also worry for now for the safety of that plum tree I found in College town back in my Cornell days. When it was simply a random ornamental plum I doubt anyone noticed. But since stupid me made the mistake of saying I thought I was a Mirabelle on a public urban foraging site, I'm a little worried I have inadvertently signed it's death warrant (beyond the one it presumably already has over it by being a big tree in an otherwise completely urban zone, basically stuck in a huge planter between two buildings.)

[darrenabbey]

From my reading, the protected name is "Mirabelle de Lorraine", not just "Mirabelle". The trees grow all over Europe and elsewhere, so I don't think you have to worry about it.

Links:
www.thompson-morgan.com/fruit/fruit-trees/stone-fruit-trees/plum-mirabelle-de-nancy/dww3679TM
www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mirabelle-trees
www.raintreenursery.com/Fruit_Trees/Plums/European_Plums/Mirabelle_Plums/
www.treesofantiquity.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=499

The law is to generally protect place trade-names. The Champagne you know is wine of a certain style from Champagne, France. The name of the wine is a local trademark/trade-name. In the case of the plum, "Mirabelle" doesn't refer to a place, but "Mirabelle de Lorraine" does.

[blueadzuki]

You're probably right. The ones I get are another strain, Mirabelle Geneva. Whether this is Geneva Switzerland or Geneva New York I have no clue (the ag station up there works with apples, if they did occasional work with cold hardy plums I wouldn't be the least surprised)

[darrenabbey]

I found one reference which seemed to suggest "Mirabelle" would translate to "Queen", but I haven't found corroborating evidence.

[darrenabbey]

A more typical translation would be, "Of incredible beauty", which is where the "Queen" translation probably comes from... as it is probably the sort of way you would want to refer to a queen who could have your head cut off.

[steev]

Right; even if she's a toad.

[blueadzuki]

Yes "queen" French is "reine" as in "Reine Claude" (the French name for the plum we usually call a greengage)

[khoomeizhi]

raintree carries one they call 'reine de mirabelle', to tie it all together.

[samyaza]

Hi all.

I've always lived in the mirabelle DOP, in the middle of thousands mirabelle trees. 'Mirabelle de Lorraine' is just a stupid designation for fruits grown from crappy overyielding modern cultivars, in a restricted area supposed to be the 'good old mirabelle area', where hundreds of heirlooms exist.



In fact, you can compare heirloom to commercial mirabelles the same way you'd compare heirloom tomatoes to their commercial counterparts : only productivity and transportability were retained and there's nothing else available in stores.

Heirlooms are grown from suckers, commercial cultivars are grafted.

If I knew they would thrive at yours, I'd send you true seeds of my heirloom, even if it wouldn't come true to type.

[darrenabbey]

Jan 22, 2015 10:11:03 GMT -5 samyaza said:

If I knew they would thrive at yours, I'd send you true seeds of my heirloom, even if it wouldn't come true to type.

I expect the trees would thrive in several of the places we (those in this convo) are living.  ;-)

[samyaza]

What you should know is that heirlooms usually bear tiny fruits where the soil isn't to their taste, that's to say, outside our cuestas (côtes de Meuse, côtes de Toul, côtes de Moselle...). Just 2 miles away from the village I grew up, you can't grow heirlooms.

Commercial varieties are mirabelle x other plums hybrids that thrive almost anywhere.

Here is the inside of a booklet from the next conservatory orchard (click to view larger). The 'Pointue' (elongated) is from the next village (Billy-sous-les-côtes), and I had never heard of it !


This is mine :


And the best pie you could taste :


I hope canadamike will read this post.

[darrenabbey]

Jan 22, 2015 10:11:03 GMT -5 samyaza said:

Heirlooms are grown from suckers, commercial cultivars are grafted.

Jan 23, 2015 1:36:35 GMT -5 samyaza said:

What you should know is that heirlooms usually bear tiny fruits where the soil isn't to their taste, that's to say, outside our cuestas (côtes de Meuse, côtes de Toul, côtes de Moselle...). Just 2 miles away from the village I grew up, you can't grow heirlooms.

In those sucker-grown heirlooms, there is a great deal of hidden genetic diversity. Growing from seed allows you to find new genetic individuals which might like the conditions at a new location, no matter how specific the preferences are of the original sucker-grown genetic individual.

[samyaza]

darrenabbey : I know you're right. It's the case for all kinds of clonal crops. My father got a huge fruit bearing apple from deliberately sown seeds when he was younger, and a mirabelle bearing 3 weeks later than ours. Transplanting seed grown trees accidentally instead of suckers is quite common. Unfortunately, I don't have space for it.

I wish heirlooms gained more popularity, to create demands for higher brix, juicier mirabelles with a much stronger of its typical taste. Who knows, people might become more demanding. Anyway, there already are a lot of mirabelles grown in the south east, without the 'de Lorraine' DOP, so what ? 'Mirabelle' is enough for people to think they're from Lorraine, industrial products are cheaper to make from DOP-free material and what's the difference between the two ? For me : nothing at all ! If only producers realized they have to target high quality and differentiate, I'd commiserate.