Sorry, I didn't realise they had closed. I joined a week ago and just got an email update yesterday where they were saying they had an overwhelming response of over 300 people from around the world, mostly offering space to grow and select stuff. If you have a project they can help with I am sure they will still be interested as that is what they said in their email.
Post by blueadzuki on Mar 28, 2015 23:11:07 GMT -5
I'm of two minds about this.
On one hand, this is EXACTLY the sort of thing I need in order to pull off my projects since it is obvious by now that any plans I have of "develop it myself" then hand samples off to others for seed increase" is not actually going to work. I don't have the space to make more than ONE tiny sample of seed of ANYTHING, and, as long as I live where I do, I never will. I am aware that there are many here who would be only too happy to help me, but most people here have their own projects and goals (not that there is anything wrong with that). Any seed I hand out will be dealt with as they see fit, not me. So any plans I might have had sort of have to be left behind on any seed I give And there is a certain implicit pressure as it stands for me to drop any plans I might have for any seed I retain myself in order to further their projects (i.e. I give someone 10 kernels of a corn that has an interesting trait (since that is what I have to spare) with the suggestion he or she keep it isolated the first few years to increase the seed and "clean it up" (little seed I have can be guaranteed to be pure, nor do I have the resources to make it so). Not so much here, but on some other forums I've been too before, I have had people who ignored the suggestion and tossed my ten seeds into a running population of several hundred to be planted, and then, when the trait got lost, decided the fault was mine for not providing a much bigger initial sample and that they are "owed" that bigger sample they want (whether I can afford to spare that much or no) Since it sounds like this system would allow people to not only send seed but a breeding plan and the system will (at least at this point) match me to a grower who is willing to accept the plan. Sounds right up my alley.
On the other hand, the very fact such a system exists, and I know about it, does put a little more strength on the side of my mind I don't much like, the one that says that with my skills and results, I should not be trying to grow ANYTHING myself, and should be doling out ALL of the seed I find and acquire to people better suited, and therefore "more deserving" than me. That mentality would certainly accord with my view of what a "proper" caring member of the human race should do (that a "good" person is one who cares ONLY about others, NEVER about themselves; one who gives everything and takes nothing until it literally kills them; who voluntarily gives themselves to be burned alive in the flame that rises from the altar of the Common Good.) But I find my goals of how selfless I feel I should be fall far in excess of what I actually seem capable of. I LIKE growing stuff myself, and I DO still think I deserve to get something out it (I put in the effort, I put in the money, I have at least earned a right to TRY for the rewards.) I AM still a selfish person. (thank you for reading my rant)
Oh well, if it is closed for the year, at least I have many more months to mull over which side to go for (and maybe get the little voice in my head to get a little less extreme).
It does look like a great initiative. My reluctance to join is that my projects are relatively trivial, when compared with the aims of their project. My entertainments are not doing much for agriculture in the new greenhouse world. I don't want to use up their grower resources on my wacky projects. One observation blueadzuki, is that there are never enough resources. You almost have to share the load - to enable selection of some things requires growouts of such numbers that they then become impossible to assess because it takes too much time. However, I agree, running a pet project with others is a bit daunting - I only tried it once, and have paused it for the moment, but may well resume it again next spring. The geographic spread of my co-researchers was so wide, that it became impossible to coordinate various generations. I'm currently sharing a project with one other grower - much easier. T
Last Edit: Mar 29, 2015 0:20:33 GMT -5 by templeton
One observation blueadzuki, is that there are never enough resources. You almost have to share the load - to enable selection of some things requires growouts of such numbers that they then become impossible to assess because it takes too much time. However, I agree, running a pet project with others is a bit daunting - I only tried it once, and have paused it for the moment, but may well resume it again next spring. The geographic spread of my co-researchers was so wide, that it became impossible to coordinate various generations. I'm currently sharing a project with one other grower - much easier. T
I get sharing the load. My issue is just I don't want to end up where the portion of the "load" I wind up being left with is the grunt work and the bankrolling, while all of the potential "profits" (be it financial or just seeing the end result be what you wanted it to be) go entirely to others. There is a fine line between being a good team player and being a slave, between giving others their due and letting them walk all over you.
If I do it, I'd probably do it with the rice beans. There, I know the clear goal (to get a strain with a short enough season it can be grown in the North and still get a good harvest) and (assuming that the supply holds out long enough that some more "right" bags of seed still come to me in the future, enough leftovers to allow me to hand out seed on the level needed (rice beans are really sort of a field crop) and still have enough left to play around a little myself.
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 29, 2015 2:16:48 GMT -5
I've been thinking about how I could design an experiment that would be of benefit to me? Do I really want seed going out into other gardens and then coming back to me? I've quarantined my garden against importing onions and garlic. I can't trust people to send me sweet pepper seeds that are not contaminated by hot peppers, so in practice I have a pepper quarantine, even if I don't use those words for it. I don't think I would trust pepo squash seed, or muskmelon, or cucumber seed coming back to me because of the possibility of bitter genes.
So without seeds coming back how could I use the network... I suppose that I could ask people to do screenings via sibling groups. For example send out two sibling groups of moschata squash to a damp climate, and ask that one hill of each be planted and that the sibling groups be scored for susceptibility to mildew.
There seems to be so many possibilities for mix-ups and plain old mal-intent. I currently trust a few people to return seeds of my highly developed landrace varieties, but mostly incoming seeds get planted in separate quarantined fields. I don't think I could trust people to not return GMO and CMS contaminated seed.
Each year there is fallow space in my fields, so I have all the room in the world for screening purposes. I might not have all the time/attention to do screenings properly, but I don't lack for space.
The Network says that I'd be responsible for postage on any seeds that I send out... That's a tremendous burden to me. I have a stack of letters and requests for seeds sitting beside me on the desk tonight. It eats away at me that months on end go by without me being able to afford the postage. I sooth myself by saying that people that expect gifts can't put demands on how soon the gift arrives. And thank-you notes that I write will be welcomed as well next month as they would have been last month. Nevertheless, it bothers me. It's hard to get excited about volunteering to increase that burden.
The people who's feedback I value most live in my valley. They share my altitude, climate, bugs, soil, society, water, etc... I deal with them face to face.
I've sent a tremendous amount of possibly red-podded pea seed out into the world without strings attached. Perhaps someone will develop a red-podded snap pea from the seed before I do. I'd be glad of it. But I still can't risk a hot gene showing up in the sweet peppers.
How do y'all envision an Experimental Farm Network operating?
Silt/clay, high-altitude, super-arid, sun-drenched, irrigated-desert garden. Cold radiant-cooled nights. ~100 frost free days. Grow most of my own locally adapted landrace seed. GDD10C ~1300. Buy my book or subscribe to my newsletter at Lofthouse.com.
Sounds like to me it might have to be mostly local. No way to establish or have confidence in any controls without actually knowing and being able to visit your partners. I haven't had much luck with that but still working on it.
Nothing ruins a neighborhood like paved roads and water lines.
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.): Looking for Goldini Zucchini again. Thinking of setting up my own seed shop for OSSI varieties in the future.
Apr 2, 2022 3:58:57 GMT -5
gratefulseedsaver: I have Goldini seeds. email@example.com
Oct 8, 2022 18:46:12 GMT -5
wilscase: Hello all. My name is Casey Wilson. I'
Oct 18, 2022 21:31:32 GMT -5
wilscase: I'm a graduate student at Oregon State and have been working with populations segrgating for different color genes such as the B gene in Cucurbita. I'm curious if anyone has experience with crosses in Cucurbita maxima between grey blue types and orange?
Oct 18, 2022 21:33:14 GMT -5
wilscase: I have been backcrossing to the grey parent for 4 generations and have finally selfed the heterozygotes (for the Bmax gene) the populations have segregated for diffuse bicolor (pink/blue, orange green), blue green, blue, green, pink (salmon) and orange
Oct 18, 2022 21:36:29 GMT -5
wilscase: The genes involved are Bmax and bl. I have observed that Bmax is incompletely dominant to wild type (green). I have read that bl is incompletely recessive to Bl(wild type). I'm curious if anyone else has observed the behavior of Bmax in a grey/blue type
Oct 18, 2022 21:38:28 GMT -5
wilscase: It appears that bl and Bmax are interacting to produce different shades of salmon and pink.
Oct 18, 2022 21:38:52 GMT -5
wilscase: I'm also interested in any other color genetics, especially the relationships between B and L genes. In the right background these genes can dramatically increase Carotenoids (vitamin A)
Oct 18, 2022 21:40:09 GMT -5
wilscase: I have lots of germplasm and would love to exchange anything that people are interested in
Oct 18, 2022 21:41:56 GMT -5