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Post by templeton on May 1, 2015 21:13:40 GMT -5
I've developed a very nice large podded yellow snow, on tall plants (working title - Joni's Taxi). Now I'm working on a dwarf semi-leafless yellow snow. I planted out 100 F2 seedlings of Lacy Lady X JT, the plan being to cull the talls and normal leafed plants at the seedling stage. I thought af = afila was visible at second leaf stage, at least that it what i remember from previous seasons, but my growout, which should have yielded 25 af plants doesn't look quite right. Things that might have af look stunted and weird compared to the normal plants. any suggestions?  sparse foliage centre front row = putative af plant, dwarf far left, tall normals background, T |
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Post by 12540dumont on May 2, 2015 0:54:27 GMT -5
So, why no leaves? How will they do photosynthesis?
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Post by templeton on May 2, 2015 2:17:59 GMT -5
So, why no leaves? How will they do photosynthesis? I'll have a better look when they are more developed - they have tangled tendrils that photosynthesise, and have reduced leaves along the stem. The massive tendril system means they are self supporting, and the lack of leaves is supposedly a way to increase airflow & reduce diseases. The trait is exploited in field peas here, where the tendrils help resist lodging. One of my other growouts is a cross between JT and Mukta, an Aust bred pale-seeded semi-leafless field pea with some disease resistance. Will take more generations to recover snow pea traits, tho. T |
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Post by 12540dumont on May 5, 2015 14:53:10 GMT -5
Templeton, one of Alan Kapuler peas had hyper tendrils. They did not want to give up the trellis.  Reducing disease is always right up there with flavor. I am having a horrible bug season. They have chewed the potatoes so much, that I'm going to dig them up. I got the first row done. Phew. I got very few peas this year. 2 pickings and the gopher had the rest of them. I swear as soon as the cat gets one, another pops up to take it's place. A curse on gophers and all there pea eating offspring. What do you use field peas for? |
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Post by templeton on May 5, 2015 18:51:17 GMT -5
field peas = dry soup peas. They grow huge paddocks here for export trade to south asia and middle east. also for high protein animal feed. I think its part of broadscale farming rotations to break disease cycles, and add nitrogen. Tho overheard a local farmer the other day say ' we don't worry about disease, just spray the crap out of it'. I've been inspecting the seed trays over the last few days, and there isn't a hypertendril pea in any of the F2s. Just some strange terminal tendrils and leaf shapes. Something fishy is going on...  |
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Post by philagardener on May 5, 2015 20:14:27 GMT -5
Curious, T! There might be interesting genetic interactions between af and other gene alleles from your P1. Have you used Lacy Lady in other crosses? Alan Kapuler describes the appearance of Sugar Magnolia as a surprise - "Unexpectedly, the cross of a Parsley Bush Pea with a Purple Podded Snap Vine Pea generated the hypertendril trait." (http://peaceseedslive.blogspot.com/) He actually had a really interesting mix of tendril/leaf phenotypes come out of that cross.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 5, 2015 22:36:59 GMT -5
An interesting project to be sure. The "parsley pea" is an unusual cross of two rare recessive genes. The first is the one templeton is working (hyper-tendrills or semi-leafless) where the gene tells the plant to turn some of its leaves into extra tendrils. The second is a gene that tells all tendrils to go away and instead become leaflets (little leaves), and thus you get parsley pea.
Interesting that none in your f2 have any semi-leaflets, but perhaps you just got unlucky with your small growout. Or perhaps holly is right there could be some throwback gene "reawaking" going on here where there are unforseen genetics coming into play.
Keep us up to date on your progress.
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Post by templeton on May 5, 2015 23:13:42 GMT -5
I haven't used Lacy Lady before - I did grow it, but in a neglected bed 4 km from home, so it never thrived.
Yesterday I culled the normal looking peas, keeping anything with distorted leaves, strange tendrils, or dwarfing. For a while I was wondering if I had actually done a cross, but the variation in the F2 seedlings is enough evidence that I did. And the strange leaflets indicates it wasn't a cross between any of my normal plants.
I should have seen some semi-leafless plants - I grew 100 seeds, and if it's a simple recessive, 1/4 = 25 plants should have the trait. I should go and count the dwarfs, see what ratios I've got there. I have got anothercouple of hundred F2 seeds, so I could explore it a bit more - trouble is, not enough garden or greenhouse room to grow them out, and I don't want to waste them.
Will be interesting to see what shows up in the Joni's X Mukta F2 stuff, which are just emerging from the peat pots. I think I put in 100 of these as well - Hoping it's not too late to grow them out this winter.
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Post by templeton on May 10, 2015 17:31:37 GMT -5
Well, my first growout of LacyLady X Golden Spring F2 with the occasional distorted leaf plant is still not showing any signs of proper semi-leaflessness, but my second growout of a field pea with big podded yellow snow (MuktaX Jonis Taxi F2) has produced at least 2 plants with semi-leafless trait. 2 plants out of 25 - a bit under represented if its a simple recessive gene. Since the field pea is not a sheller or snow, I'm not sure of the eating characteristics of the pod - I imagine it will be fiberous. Finally planning ahead for once, I've planted the yellow snow parent so i can do a back cross when they flower, and look to recover the semileafless again next spring when i grow it out. Semi leafless tendril on middle plant.  T |
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Post by galina on May 11, 2015 16:52:55 GMT -5
Surprised you don't have more hypertendrils. Is there more than one gene involved after all?
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Post by templeton on May 11, 2015 17:45:35 GMT -5
galina, the JIC pisum database gives the following for af"Leaflets converted to tendrils. Associated with branching. Stipules are not affected." Unless the branching genes have something to do with its appearance, i don't know what is going on. I suppose there is a chance that my original cross was incomplete - that only a few peas in the crossed pod were crosses, the rest selfed. Then when i grow the F1s I get a small number of crosses, the rest just parent lines, but I think I would have noticed this. When I label I usually put the maternal parent first, which if I labelled the bag correctly, would make it a dwarf hypertendril if uncrossed, which i probably would have noticed... T
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Post by templeton on May 11, 2015 17:55:53 GMT -5
just checked the stud book, Mukta was the maternal parent, so incomplete cross pollination isn't the issue. The pollen donor was an early generation yellow podded plant - so i will probably need to cross it back to my new good lines to get something worth eating.
Thank goodness for record keeping.
T
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Post by templeton on May 12, 2015 0:11:20 GMT -5
Have just checked the plug tray. I've now got what looks like 7/55 hypertendrils, about half of what I would have expected. Good news is they seem to be both talls and shorts, but the low numbers reduces my chances of getting yellow pods and no fibre considerably.
T
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Post by steev on May 12, 2015 0:53:57 GMT -5
Possibly not useful, but my Austrian field peas are remarkably tendrilous, very robust and branchy (also leafy; good salad tips, but far more tendrilous than any of my other peas).
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Post by templeton on May 12, 2015 18:38:45 GMT -5
I've got a few other varieties of field peas to try if this lot don't work out, Kaspa and Parafield from memory. I think it is a desirable characteristic for field grown peas to help prevent lodging, so probably not that remarkable that the Austrians have selected for this trait.
T
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Reducing disease is always right up there with flavor.
