Haskaps

[Marches]

Recently acquired a Haskap bush. Saw it in a shop by chance, only got one as they only had one variety. Seems to be conflicting advice saying they need a pollination partner whereas the plant label said self fertile. Other sources say a small crop without a pollination partner and a few sources say self fertile but not *self pollinating*, so will go round the flowers with a brush or q tip in spring I think.
Flavour reports vary widely from great tasting to bland or disgusting. Maybe it's highly dependent on terroir.

If I get another variety I might do some breeding work to get self pollination into them. For now though I'll see how they do and what they're like.
Sound like a good fruit for the difficult British climate, especially the year we're having so far. Highly cold hardy, fruit in cool seasons and highly frost resistant flowers - perfect.

Anyone grow them and have any experience? I have an old Russian kamchatika variety "morena".

[steev]

I got a packet of seeds in Oregon in '13; haven't gotten around to stratify/sow them yet; NorCal climate hasn't been very encouraging for things that thrive in Oregon.

If the rain returns this Fall, I'll try to get them going; maybe we can swap seeds.

[reed]

I got three different ones on E-bay early this spring, all doing well. I'm excited abut something that is supposed to be very hardy and not bothered by deer. Posted about them here alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/8345/lonicera-caerulea-honeyberry-honeysuckle  

That link to the university in Canada has lots of info and they write back if you want to ask them about them. 

[MikeH]

Jun 1, 2015 16:08:42 GMT -5 Marches said:

Recently acquired a Haskap bush. Saw it in a shop by chance, only got one as they only had one variety. Seems to be conflicting advice saying they need a pollination partner whereas the plant label said self fertile. Other sources say a small crop without a pollination partner and a few sources say self fertile but not *self pollinating*, so will go round the flowers with a brush or q tip in spring I think.
Flavour reports vary widely from great tasting to bland or disgusting. Maybe it's highly dependent on terroir.

If I get another variety I might do some breeding work to get self pollination into them. For now though I'll see how they do and what they're like.
Sound like a good fruit for the difficult British climate, especially the year we're having so far. Highly cold hardy, fruit in cool seasons and highly frost resistant flowers - perfect.

Anyone grow them and have any experience? I have an old Russian kamchatika variety "morena".

If you bought Morena, then it's not haskap. Naming of edible blue honeysuckle is a bit confused.  Haskap are the cultivars developed by the University of Saskatchewan or the varieties developed by the Dr. Maxine Thompson at Oregon State University. Everything else is honeyberry which is the name used by One Green World Nursery in Oregon when they imported varieties from Russian and Eastern Europe and needed to rename them for an English speaking market.

Morena is a Russian variety bred at N. I. Vavilov All-Russian Horticulture Research Institute and Pavlov Experimental Station.

We've been growing both USask haskap and the older Russian and Czech cultivars since 2008. From experience, I'd say that they are not self-fertile.  We have a single haskap that is well away from the rest.  It has never produced fruit because I don't think the bumblebees get from the main planting to it.  Nevertheless, have a go at hand-pollinating.  It would be good to have more pollination information.

Flavour is in the eye palate of the beholder.  Nonetheless, you have to wait until they are ripe to the point of falling off the bush for the taste to shift from tart to tart sweet.  By that time, the birds will have cleaned you out 100% so you must net. I like them fresh off the bush but the real winner is haskap jam or juice.  When the berries are processed into jam, the skins virtually disappear but the fruit remains intact.  The seeds are so small as to be completely unnoticeable. The flavour is very complex and more intense than even black currant.

I've collect info here - ediblebluehoneysuckle.wordpress.com/

[Marches]

If you bought Morena, then it's not haskap. Naming of edible blue honeysuckle is a bit confused.  Haskap are the cultivars developed by the University of Saskatchewan or the varieties developed by the Dr. Maxine Thompson at Oregon State University. Everything else is honeyberry which is the name used by One Green World Nursery in Oregon when they imported varieties from Russian and Eastern Europe and needed to rename them for an English speaking market.

Morena is a Russian variety bred at N. I. Vavilov All-Russian Horticulture Research Institute and Pavlov Experimental Station.

We've been growing both USask haskap and the older Russian and Czech cultivars since 2008.

Have you tasted Morena? Is it any good?

From experience, I'd say that they are not self-fertile.  We have a single haskap that is well away from the rest.  It has never produced fruit because I don't think the bumblebees get from the main planting to it.  Nevertheless, have a go at hand-pollinating.  It would be good to have more pollination information.

Flavour is in the eye palate of the beholder.  Nonetheless, you have to wait until they are ripe to the point of falling off the bush for the taste to shift from tart to tart sweet.  By that time, the birds will have cleaned you out 100% so you must net. I like them fresh off the bush but the real winner is haskap jam or juice.  When the berries are processed into jam, the skins virtually disappear but the fruit remains intact.  The seeds are so small as to be completely unnoticeable. The flavour is very complex and more intense than even black currant.

I've collect info here - ediblebluehoneysuckle.wordpress.com/

[/quote]

Thanks! I found this page - ediblebluehoneysuckle.wordpress.com/ebh-varieties/russian-vs-japanese-varieties/ Fascinating.
Seed from the fruit grows immediately, grows over winter (considering UK has mild winters, zone 8) and crops the following spring? Sounds awesome. I may do some research and get a selection of more promising varieties and maybe do some breeding. Would be good to find self pollinating flowers like I say.

[MikeH]

Jun 3, 2015 16:16:33 GMT -5 Marches said:

Have you tasted Morena? Is it any good?

No, I haven't although I suspect that it is at least OK given the where it originated. I'm pretty sure that the four non-USask varieties that we grow were bred by the Vavilov. Among the 10 varieties of edible blue honeysuckle that we grow there's a wide range of fruit shape but little no difference in flavour that I can detect and I've got a fairly sensitive palate. Because people have asked what does it taste like, you find nonsense like a combination of blueberry and raspberry. It doesn't. It tastes like edible blue honeysuckle. If I ask what does a blueberry taste like, the answer is "like a blueberry" The same goes for every fruit or vegetable that I can think of. OK, there are probably some whose taste can be described by the taste of something else but they're the exception not the rule.

Thanks! I found this page - ediblebluehoneysuckle.wordpress.com/ebh-varieties/russian-vs-japanese-varieties/ Fascinating.
Seed from the fruit grows immediately, grows over winter (considering UK has mild winters, zone 8) and crops the following spring? Sounds awesome. I may do some research and get a selection of more promising varieties and maybe do some breeding. Would be good to find self pollinating flowers like I say.

Yep that is a article with significance for UK growers. It seems to me breeding for consistent yield in the UK climate might be a better idea that breeding for self-fertility. I think I'd start by trying to get some of Maxine Thompson's Haskap variety seed. Her plants originate in Hokkaido which is northern Japan. Perhaps the Hokkaido/US Pacific Northwest climates are close to the UK climate. They're certainly much closer than northern Canadian prairies or Siberia.  Then I'd do what Joseph did with his Utah melons - plant as many as you can and see which do what you want. Pull out those that don't while selecting seed from those that do/seem to do and plant them in the vacated spaces.  The wild bees love this plant so the exercise of and pollinating and isolating the plants would be a big task.

[Marches]

No, I haven't although I suspect that it is at least OK given the where it originated. I'm pretty sure that the four non-USask varieties that we grow were bred by the Vavilov. Among the 10 varieties of edible blue honeysuckle that we grow there's a wide range of fruit shape but little no difference in flavour that I can detect and I've got a fairly sensitive palate. Because people have asked what does it taste like, you find nonsense like a combination of blueberry and raspberry. It doesn't. It tastes like edible blue honeysuckle. If I ask what does a blueberry taste like, the answer is "like a blueberry" The same goes for every fruit or vegetable that I can think of. OK, there are probably some whose taste can be described by the taste of something else but they're the exception not the rule.

Well no one knows what an edible blue honeysuckle tastes like I guess. We have labrusca grapes compared to strawberries too. If I was talking about them to anyone I'd emphasise their selling points over blackcurrants tbh - bigger size, good yield, ease of cultivation, suitability for tough climates, etc.

Yep that is a article with significance for UK growers. It seems to me breeding for consistent yield in the UK climate might be a better idea that breeding for self-fertility. I think I'd start by trying to get some of Maxine Thompson's Haskap variety seed. Her plants originate in Hokkaido which is northern Japan. Perhaps the Hokkaido/US Pacific Northwest climates are close to the UK climate. They're certainly much closer than northern Canadian prairies or Siberia.  Then I'd do what Joseph did with his Utah melons - plant as many as you can and see which do what you want. Pull out those that don't while selecting seed from those that do/seem to do and plant them in the vacated spaces.  The wild bees love this plant so the exercise of and pollinating and isolating the plants would be a big task.

Well the summers here are more like Siberia I think, especially the Russian far East in that they can be fairly cool and rainy. This year is a good rest year for varieties so far because it's been like that. Winters are brief like much of east Asia.
I'm not sure where I'd get the seeds, but I'd love to give it a go and breed something specific to the UK. I'd also want to experiment with terroir (grape term - means climate, soil and a load of other stuff and how it effects flavour). Would grow cuttings of one variety in different containers of soil - acidic, alkaline, sandy, clay, etc. Highly acidic soil in grapes usually leads to poor flavour but higher sugars, alkaline leads to poor growth but very concentrated, minerally flavours (probably due to plant being under stress and less vigorous), clay can either lead to poor growth in some or vigorous growth but lack of fruit in others. Sand to weird flavours and poor growth but earlier crop, etc...
Experiments in vigour too. Grape flavours vary with how vigorous a variety is. Vigorous varieties will concentrate flavours in grapes when pruned short for example.

So would like to breed them and do a few experiments to get more information on the crop.

[MikeH]

Jun 4, 2015 13:39:22 GMT -5 Marches said:

I'm not sure where I'd get the seeds, but I'd love to give it a go and breed something specific to the UK.

I'd offer you seeds from this year's crop but we've had a crop failure as a result of a late killing frost after the flowers were finished and the fruit was forming. The flowers are hardy to -7C but not the fruit - it was mush.

You could try bluehoneysuckle.blogspot.ca/ or ebhbasics.blogspot.ca/

[sarah200]

If anyone has some haskap seeds available for sale, I'm looking to get some, preferably fresh seed.

[richardw]

First day of Aug and one month of official winter to go, noticed today that the one year old Haskaps that MikeH gave me seed of. I'm sure that it's all to do with sunlight hours as there's no warming here yet, mid Aug is when we start to notice the first signs of spring.