bad vibes sending seeds

[richardw]

Yes you are right Australia is in the same boat too, no large carnivores to balance/control the introduced grazing animals.

Not sure if still having the Haast eagle around would a good thing, they were known to take Maori children.

[blueadzuki]

But 1. we are talking about a New Zealand sans people, and 2. wouldn't anything able to take down a young/full grown deer also be capable of hunting a child if it so chose?

Interesting choice of guess of plumage on that model. Most of the ones I have seen assume that, as Harpagonis moorei/ assimilas (remember, there are actually TWO species of Haast's eagle) were probably very closely related to the South American Harpy Eagle, they had similar plumage (so grayer on the head, and with the crest) As (as far as I know) all remains are skeletal.

I suppose we just have to hope that some of the people who have seen supposedly extinct New Zealand animals are right, that somewhere, out there in Fijorland or such there really ARE still Upland Moas, Common Moas (though given that that report came from the Craigiburne mountain range (which is pretty heavily traveled that seems a little dubious) Huias and Laughing Owls (almost makes me want to suggest someone going out there take an accordion with them :

[steev]

I'm tempted to suggest they take ALL the accordions, though I admit to being partial to their usage from Louisiana; I'll cast no aspersions, being fond of bagpipes, so unfairly dismissed as "an ill wind that blows no good".

[richardw]

Yes i would highly doubt Haast eagle came in a colour range of sky blue, though the size of such a bird would have been certainly have been rather imposing to say the least. Shame the bird doesn't exist today as it could have benefited from so many pest species that are currently putting so much pressure on the NZ environment.

I cant see there being any Moa's left today even in the remotest of Fiordland, even if there were, there numbers would be so low that they would be suffering from extreme inbreeding. Fiordland being the third wettest place in the world would be a extreme environment for this species of bird to not only survive in but remain obscure for over a 150 years. Thanks to air access Fiordland is extensively hunted area, if there were still Moa there i'm sure there would have been at least some evidence of there existence... such a shame is there is not.

[steev]

Yes; we may dream of the continued existence of species we have exterminated, but there is little likelihood of that. We are, for better or worse, pretty ubiquitous and predatory; personally, as a zoologist, I regret our environmental impact, but there it is. So many marvelous creatures gone on our watch; what a shame. So many more going into oblivion now, thanks to us. Many of them are insects and "lower" species, but who gets to prioritize?

I think we've made it pretty clear that we have the power, but not the judgement.

[blueadzuki]

Dec 13, 2016 0:10:42 GMT -5 richardw said:

Yes i would highly doubt Haast eagle came in a colour range of sky blue, though the size of such a bird would have been certainly have been rather imposing to say the least. Shame the bird doesn't exist today as it could have benefited from so many pest species that are currently putting so much pressure on the NZ environment.

I cant see there being any Moa's left today even in the remotest of Fiordland, even if there were, there numbers would be so low that they would be suffering from extreme inbreeding. Fiordland being the third wettest place in the world would be a extreme environment for this species of bird to not only survive in but remain obscure for over a 150 years. Thanks to air access Fiordland is extensively hunted area, if there were still Moa there i'm sure there would have been at least some evidence of there existence... such a shame is there is not.

Well, Harpy Eagles are sort of bluish themselves. I was more referring to their decision to give it uniform flat color and than flat, uncrested head. Though in fairness I should point out that other paleoartists depict Haast's as brown and white, looking a lot like a Golden Eagle (or given that New Zealand is closer to Australia and New Guinea, a Wedge Tailed eagle)

If I can find the book I read about it in, I'll double check where they said they saw the Upland Moa, it might not be Fijordland. And I'm not sure it would be WORTH hunting. Uplands don't look like the conventional moa you think about, they're squat, short legged, and about the size of a turkey (including their feathers). In fact, as far as anyone can tell, they would look like nothing so much as an overgrown kiwi (their scientific name Megalapteryx didinus literally translates as "big kiwi that looks like a dodo).

As for inbreeding, yes you are probably right on that account. However I should point out that this could be a case where cloning could be done to do a little widening. The famous mummified moa head and foot are from an upland.

[richardw]

There was a claimed sighting of a Moa in January 1993 by a bloke called Paddy Freaney he was the Bealey hotel owner at the time, his pub was not far from the claimed sighting area and for many years after he benefited financially from the hoards of people keen to get there own sighting. After having spent a good part of my 20's&30's blade shearing in 'high country' we(fallow shears)would spent many a evening drinking his beer and listening to his yarns, and man he was good at spinning a few story's too. Paddy claimed when he saw the Moa it ran off into the bush, this seem strange because like most other NZ native birds the Moa were very docile animals which allowed the Maori to easily hunted them to extinction, they would have been pretty much able to walk up to them and just smack on them on the head.

[richardw]

..... we are getting a bit side tracked in this thread

[steev]

Wandered into the weeds, have we?