Cilantro breeding projects

[andyb]

I've been working on a few different cilantro breeding projects. Two of them have F1 seeds in bags waiting for a growout this winter or next spring. I'll put some notes in this thread, probably spread out over a few posts.

I got the vegetable breeding bug after reading Carol Deppe's Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties. I was particularly taken with her comment that amateurs like me can take bigger risks with our breeding projects because, unlike a professional breeder, my job doesn't depend on the success of the projects. So, one of the plants I'm working with cilantro. It's a minor crop, getting almost no attention from professional breeders. It's also been very lightly developed and varieties haven't been terribly well maintained. It's a nice small pond to spend some time in.

I've purchased about 20 different packets of seed from a number of different seed companies, and there are only a few named varieties available in the US that I haven't gotten my hands on. I also requested three accessions from GRIN and was pleased that they granted my request.

Looking closely, I've seen quite a bit of variability in just about every characteristic of the plants I've grown. Even between plants from a single seed packet, there is usually quite a bit of variability. Only a few, like Sunmaster, show signs of strong selection for uniform growth.

Two of the accessions from GRIN are particularly interesting. AMES 21655 and PI664510, from Armenia and Syria respectively, averaged a couple weeks later bolting than any of the domestic varieties. The Syrian plants were by far the most vigorous and fast-growing of any I've tried, and some individual plants didn't start bolting until more than a month after every domestic plant I grew (~90 this spring) had bolted. Unfortunately their flavor is kind of muddy.

So, I have two main projects.

The first started with the two late-bolting GRIN accessions and a grab-bag of the domestic varieties. I'll mass- and possibly lineage-select for good taste, vigor, and late bolting. Hopefully I'll end up with a variety that grows well in my region.

The second is the slightly crazy one. I figure carrots have big edible roots, as do parsnips, some celery, some parsley, etc. Cilantro is pretty closely related and has a small, chewy, but edible root. So I started with as much diversity as possible and will select for large monolithic roots. Maybe they'll get big in a few generations. Maybe they'll even taste good. Who knows, but I'm sure having fun.

[ferdzy]

Excellent! That sounds like so much fun. I know that vietnamese cuisine in particular has recipes that specifically call for cilantro roots, as they have a subtly different flavour from the rest of the plant.

I have to say, I grow some cilantro, but it seeds itself, and is thus generally ready just at the time I have no use for it.

[saopk]

ive grown cilantro from "coriander seeds" from the bulk bins at the grocery stores, they bolted really fast

[flowerweaver]

Where I live it is generally planted on Halloween. I'm not aware of what significance that holds in the Mexican American culture. I've never tried the root, but I like all the other parts so now my interest is piqued ferdzy.

[diane]

Peters developed Standby, "extra winter hardy, super slow bolting, bred for Aug - Sept sowing and harvesting winter through early spring".

I still have a few of Peters' original seeds which I hope are still viable. I just googled, and Adaptive is selling it, so I can buy replacement seed if needed.

[andyb]

I was really excited about Standby and grew some out as part of my spring planting this year, but wasn't terribly impressed. It had fine but unexceptional vigor and wasn't particularly late-bolting. Pretty much the middle of the pack. I did include the two Standby plants with the largest roots in my founding population for the big-root project, though. Maybe I'll try it again next year as fall planting.

The domestic varieties that bolted later than Standby this year were:
Pinetree: Caribe
Pinetree: Large Leaf
Johnny's: Calypso
Adaptive: Rak Tamchat
Restoration: Sunmaster

All of these had bolted a full week before the first of the GRIN Syrian or Armenian plants.

I didn't get bolting data last year, but the standout varieties for vigor were:
Johnny's: Calypso and Santo
Territorial: Santo

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if someone growing in different circumstances might get completely different results.

[blueadzuki]

I can only comment on my own experiences which I suppose are similar to saopk's (I've never planted cilantro on purpose, but coriander is one of the commoner things I do my sorts on, and the process of such a sort leaves me with several pounds of now thoroughly soaked coriander seed. So I usually simply dump it in one of the big pots on the side, and a certain percentage invariably does germinate.)

From what I have seen Indian type coriander (the kind with oval seed) is somewhat slower to bolt than the Middle Eastern (round seeded) types, but both seem to bolt annoyingly fast.

The worst offender was some stuff I got from a bodega (round seeded, so presumably a Middle eastern type, but with seeds far smaller than any kind I had seen before) That one more or less bolted instantly, it literally went straight from germinating seed to feathery adult foliage, no wide leaf cilantro in between. (on the other hand it was also super early to set seed, so if you lived somewhere with a very short season and needed actual coriander back, I imagine it could be just what you were looking for.

[templeton]

what a great project.
I'v etried a few varieties from the US, but turuthfully can't say I've noticed much difference between them and generic plants from friends gardens or the spice rack in the asian grocery. any differences have been swamped by seasonal differences ans neglect. blueadzuki, i hadn't noticed the difference in seed shape - but then i don't sort through kilos of seed with gimlet eye like you do. I'll pay more attention in future. andyb, I look forward to reports - can you do two crops a year where you live? here i probably could get a spring planted and autumn planted one per year but probably subject to different selection pressures that might be counter productive.
T

[blueadzuki]

Indian type is also often a different color (sort of straw yellow, instead of tan) According to the web the two are actually different subspecies the long kind is vulgare. the round microcarpa (microcarpa is supposed to be the stronger, it's the one often used for essential oil distillation).

The Indian kind is sold in big bags because it's actually a snack food (roasted coriander seeds are a popular thing to munch on in India, a lot of snack mixes have them)

[andyb]

blueadzuki, I've seen some of those Indian coriander seeds shaped like an american football. Haven't planted any, though. It would make sense that some coriander seed farmers would want fast-bolting plants. I've come across a variety or two in seed catalogs that claimed to be this type. I read about some breeding work in Russia to develop overwintering coriander plants with a flat rosette of leaves and the meristem sunk into the ground, for spring production of seed.

Templeton, I can grow two nice crops of cilantro here in the spring and in the fall, but have pretty much decided to only do selection for a spring crop. Part of this is to reduce the number of selection pressures, as you mentioned. I also figure that a spring crop might be less regionally adapted than a fall/overwintering crop, and might be more likely to be useable or adaptable to other regions.

I did plant a fall crop last year, and the plants bolted over the course of about 6 months. The first started in mid-winter and the last was still flowering in early summer when my spring crop was going to seed. Clearly a lot of variation.

One option I'm exploring is an unselected winter crop under lights. I figure that if I did this, I could safely do aggressive lineage selection of the spring crop without losing too much genetic diversity. Unfortunately, when I tried it last winter I had an awful time getting them to bolt. I had the lights on for 16 hours a day, then 18 hours a day. I used a heating pad to raise the soil temperature. No luck. In February I gave up and put them outside on the porch. A few weeks later some of them were bolting.

So, from what I can tell, bolting isn't simply determined by photoperiod and probably not soil temperature. This winter I plan to experiment with light intensity and air temperature. Maybe humidity as well if I can rig something up.

[templeton]

Change in photoperiod, perhaps? drop it back below 12 hours and see what happens?

[andyb]

Oct 7, 2015 3:42:04 GMT -5 templeton said:

Change in photoperiod, perhaps? drop it back below 12 hours and see what happens?

That's a good idea. Since it normally bolts as the days are getting longer, I didn't think of an abrupt shortening as something that might trigger it. Easy to test, too.

[andyb]

I planted some F1 cilantro seeds from my big-root project in late summer and am pleased with how big the roots are. I'm coming to the conclusion that I'll need to select strongly against large side-roots. It would be much nicer to end up with something carrot- or turnip-shaped rather than celeriac-shaped. For scale, the coin is a US quarter.

[saopk]

Oct 6, 2015 12:54:18 GMT -5 andyb said:

blueadzuki, I've seen some of those Indian coriander seeds shaped like an american football. Haven't planted any, though. It would make sense that some coriander seed farmers would want fast-bolting plants. I've come across a variety or two in seed catalogs that claimed to be this type. I read about some breeding work in Russia to develop overwintering coriander plants with a flat rosette of leaves and the meristem sunk into the ground, for spring production of seed.

Templeton, I can grow two nice crops of cilantro here in the spring and in the fall, but have pretty much decided to only do selection for a spring crop. Part of this is to reduce the number of selection pressures, as you mentioned. I also figure that a spring crop might be less regionally adapted than a fall/overwintering crop, and might be more likely to be useable or adaptable to other regions.

I did plant a fall crop last year, and the plants bolted over the course of about 6 months. The first started in mid-winter and the last was still flowering in early summer when my spring crop was going to seed. Clearly a lot of variation.

One option I'm exploring is an unselected winter crop under lights. I figure that if I did this, I could safely do aggressive lineage selection of the spring crop without losing too much genetic diversity. Unfortunately, when I tried it last winter I had an awful time getting them to bolt. I had the lights on for 16 hours a day, then 18 hours a day. I used a heating pad to raise the soil temperature. No luck. In February I gave up and put them outside on the porch. A few weeks later some of them were bolting.

So, from what I can tell, bolting isn't simply determined by photoperiod and probably not soil temperature. This winter I plan to experiment with light intensity and air temperature. Maybe humidity as well if I can rig something up.

whered u get the non indian 1? i find most are sub par

[andyb]

Are you looking for seed types or leaf types?