Cilantro breeding projects

[templeton]

following with interest - I wonder how far you can push big root genetics?
T

[templeton]

hey andyb, any progress on this project?

[andyb]

No progress, just planning. The seeds from last summer are harvested, dried, and in storage. I've been focused on my bean crosses this winter, so I haven't done any more forced-bolting experiments.

I have a bed reserved for next year's growout, a little smaller than last year's bed, but I think it should work; you can cram cilantro plants pretty close together. I'm planning to do indoor planting / bare-root transplanting in the spring, in case I didn't fully break the bruchid life cycle last year. I'm a little worried about how that will affect the selection for outdoor germination and early growth, but I think it's worth it to get rid of the pest.

I'll plant sib groups in short rows with no replication, same as last year, and I'm planning to do some fairly aggressive selection at the sib-group level. I'm thinking of removing about 1/3 of the sib groups entirely, based mostly on root size, but also early-bolting tendencies. With 1/3 of the groups, I'll save the best plant. In the final third I'll save more than one plant. I also think I'm going to judge the root size of the late-bolting group separately from the others, to maintain their late-boltingness in the gene pool.

[andyb]

I transplanted the third generation of my big-root cilantro project into the garden today. Before planting the seeds in a try, I dissected 40 and found 1 bruchid larva in one of the 80 seed-halves. Much better than last year, but the cycle is definitely not broken yet. This year's bed is around the corner of the house from last year's so hopefully they don't find it.

The plants are separated into sib group when there were enough seedlings. All others are mixed together in longer rows. At a higher level, they're separated into two groups: early and late bolting. Seeds from roughly 60 - 65 of last year's selections are growing, and I'm pretty happy with that.

[philagardener]

Sounds like nice progress!

Do you freeze your seeds to kill bruchid beetle larvae that might be carrying over in there?

[andyb]

Apr 7, 2017 5:15:52 GMT -5 philagardener said:

Do you freeze your seeds to kill bruchid beetle larvae that might be carrying over in there?

I just looked back at some old references and I think I was wrong to say bruchids. They're probably chalcid wasps, and they're pretty tough. Here's an article describing how to kill them by holding the seeds at liquid nitrogen temperature for 16 hours. A normal freezer doesn't do it. A couple years ago I was thinking of trying dry ice to see if it was cold enough, since it's easier to get than liquid nitrogen.

For now, I'm brute-forcing it by planting the seeds indoors and removing all of the soil and ungerminated seeds from the roots before transplanting the seedlings into the garden. It's not ideal, but it's simple and should be pretty effective.

lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1023&context=ncrpis_pubs

[andyb]

I did this year's big-root cilantro selection about a month ago and am pleased with the progress, though there weren't any carrot-sized roots yet. Each year, I've planted in different beds (or in containers), on different dates, and with different techniques. That makes it really hard to measure progress. Regardless, this year's roots were about 75% larger than last year's roots, there were fewer plants with really scrawny roots, and there were many more roots with what I think of as a nice shape. Next year I really want to grow out a couple of reference rows from one of the original varieties so I can get a better sense for how much progress I'm making.

I was much more aggressive in my selection this year. I removed about 1/3 of the sib groups entirely, based on how the whole group performed. Otherwise, I selected no more than four plants from any given sib group. For selection criteria, I started by removing the first 5% of plants that bolted. I measured the root size of each remaining plant and used that as the main criteria. One thing I noticed was that quite a few plants had large side-roots. I'd rather have carrot-shaped roots than celery-root shaped roots, so I remove the plants that expressed this trait the strongest, regardless of the overall size. I removed two entire sib groups that strongly expressed this trait.

The early and late bolting groups appear to have mixed pretty well. There were quite a few late-bolting plants in the group with early-bolting seed parents and quite a few early-bolting plants in the late-bolting section. One plant still hasn't bolted. I think I might select more strongly for late bolting next year.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

(My post copied from the x-ray thread)

Aug 4, 2016 5:08:23 GMT -5 steve1 said:

starbuckwhy and darrenabbey - I came across a publication by the FAO/ICARDA/ICRISAT which stated they have a free gamma mutation breeding service available.

"Any plant breeder can send seeds for gamma ray irradiation to this address. The scientists working there can advise on the dose of gamma rays or apply the dose requested by the breeder. They will also adjust seed moisture content if necessary."

in Plant Breeding and Farmer Participation - Methodologies for generating variability. Part 4: Mutation techniques p163

www.fao.org/docrep/012/i1070e/i1070e00.htm

FAO/IAEA Agriculture Laboratory, Plant Breeding Unit, A-2444 Seibersdorf, Austria (<Official.Mail@iaea. org>)

Hope that helps guys.

Cheers
Steve

I would like to learn more about this free gamma mutation breeding service. I am thinking about starting a cilantro breeding project to rid cilantro of the horrible soap tasting genes. Since no one i know of hates the taste of cilantro more than me and so many restaurants insist on putting this vile weed into EVERYTHING it makes sense that no one is better to start such a project than i. The only thing is i would want lots of cilanto seeds with as many mutations as possible to help screen for any strains that might be palatable. P.s. does anyone know of any heirloom strains of Cilantro (or the seed used as an herb Coriander which does not taste terrible like the plant)? I doubt it, but it never hurts to ask.

I might be interested in other radiated plants in the near future as well.

EDIT (specific to this thread): since i am looking for as wide a gene pool and variability as possible i would be grateful to anyone who is willing to gift me cilantro / coriander seed for my potential "anti-cilantro-flavor breeding project". grex or landrace seed is also welcome especially if highly variable.

[farmermike]

Dec 30, 2017 2:19:32 GMT -5 keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) said:

I would like to learn more about this free gamma mutation breeding service. I am thinking about starting a cilantro breeding project to rid cilantro of the horrible soap tasting genes. Since no one i know of hates the taste of cilantro more than me and so many restaurants insist on putting this vile weed into EVERYTHING it makes sense that no one is better to start such a project than i. The only thing is i would want lots of cilantro seeds with as many mutations as possible to help screen for any strains that might be palatable. P.s. does anyone know of any heirloom strains of Cilantro (or the seed used as an herb Coriander which does not taste terrible like the plant)? I doubt it, but it never hurts to ask.

I might be interested in other radiated plants in the near future as well.

EDIT (specific to this thread): since i am looking for as wide a gene pool and variability as possible i would be grateful to anyone who is willing to gift me cilantro / coriander seed for my potential "anti-cilantro-flavor breeding project". grex or landrace seed is also welcome especially if highly variable.

keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) , Adaptive Seeds offers a cilantro called Rak Tamachat from Thailand. They claim that "flavor is a little more mellow", and the leaves are particularly large. That might be a good place to start. I've been thinking I might purchase some, but haven't done it yet.

I have a bunch of cilantro seed, I've been maintaining for a few years, which I could share. But it's not particularly diverse -- just some "slow-bolt" varieties that I've continued to select for slow bolting. My seed also has 8-10% of seeds showing signs of infestation (a tiny hole on one side of the two-seeded pod); maybe these are from chalcid wasps. The infestation hasn't bothered me much. I still get perfectly good germination for my needs. I've been hesitant to share seeds though.

I wonder if I could actually break their infestation cycle by the liquid nitrogen method (my wife just hinted that she could get small amounts from work ), or would they just re-infest from the local environment?

[andyb]

andrew I have lots of cilantro seeds to share, including three accessions from ARS-GRIN. My mixed-up seed is infected with a seed-borne foliar disease and has a chalcid infestation, so I'd rather not distribute it. I'll thaw my jar of original seed that I purchased a few years ago and see what I have left.

[andyb]

andrew I just sent you a PM but it didn't come up with your avatar or autocomplete on your username. If you didn't receive it, send me a PM and I'll reply.

[templeton]

andrew, look at spice racks in ethnic stores for a bit of diversity. I've got a grex, but most of mine are from US seed suppliers, so i suspect i have nothing that you couldn't get more easily.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Thanks. I'll look into that rak variety and the Asian markets. Sounds interesting.

[imgrimmer]

I just stumbled over this variety. It is said to be late bolting. Thought it might be interesting.

For english speakers.