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Post by steev on Dec 15, 2015 1:13:10 GMT -5
Going to Sacramento Saturday on a highway used only annually by me, I was struck by a pop-up orchard of maybe 1000 acres of almonds (I think); last time I went through there, it was row-crop land (tomatoes?). Now, I realize that nuts are salable worldwide and Cali has a lock on NLT 80% of the market, so swell, but they MUST be irrigated, drought or not, can't be fallowed, like tomatoes.
The thing that concerns me is that Cali is off-shoring the produce that has been its claim-to-fame for half a century and that that production is going to countries that have no prohibitions to chemicals outlawed in Cali, not to mention that the product must be shipped much further to the USA, if it is to be available in the USA. In short, I'm concerned about the globalization of produce; this strikes me as such a weirdly counterproductive idea. Business-wise: OK, I get that, though I don't agree; I think it's strip-mining: produce as much of a product as you can, where it's cheapest to do so, then move on when it's cheaper elsewhere. It's the army-ant model of environmental utilization: strip it and move.
The problem is, of course, that there are these pesky populations of humans who need to continue to extract a living from areas that are ripe for strip-mining. Who the fuck are they to stand in the way of Global Commerce when there's money to be made, just because that's where they've lived for time out of mind?
I know I'm a tad irate, but it's the soapbox and I get a tad pissed off on occasion.
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Post by raymondo on Dec 15, 2015 18:59:28 GMT -5
What's more, it is our indiscriminate consumption which drives this strip-mining approach. As long as it's someone else's backyard why should we give a damn?
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Post by steev on Dec 15, 2015 21:23:58 GMT -5
Exactly; it's not like we know those people, not even like if our sister married one, not as if she'd ever even meet one, they're so far away; say, isn't that cheap, out-of-season produce great!
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Post by richardw on Dec 17, 2015 13:08:37 GMT -5
Yes the days of only eating whats in season have long gone, to a point i can understand shipping off produce to other parts of the world if its that locations off season, but an example i noticed recently where there's US citrus sitting beside New Zealand grown in our supermarket and at a similar price too,just seems crazy to me because most people will buy local, yes i know its 'free market' but its a bit screwed up if you ask me.
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Post by steev on Dec 17, 2015 20:50:34 GMT -5
Yes, and if citrus can be shipped to NZ and retailed at much the same price as local, given shipping costs, what price did the US producer get? What price can the NZ producer get if he has to compete with produce from half the world away?
This is much the same situation US producers face with Chinese produce. Aside from pesticide/herbicide concerns, one might think about the environmental costs of shipping, and the declining returns even for local agribusiness vegetable producers when faced with global competition. Not only is a growing percentage of US canned produce being imported, but US producers are ceding the market of some vegetables to foreign producers due to cost/competition concerns. I don't think converting Cali's agriculture to globally-marketable nuts and wine, while importing fresh/canned veg is a great idea, profitable as it may be, for a fortunate few, in the short/stable run.
I won't even go into questions about produce that is excellent, but which can't survive much shipping; we all know about unripe-picked, plastic-skinned tomatoes, and what a culinary delight they are! Early Girl? Fuck you very much, I'm sure!
I'm becoming increasingly negative about monetary economy. I think we have to become more community-oriented for our basic needs; I think we need to become more inclined to trade some labor for some produce. Money for Ipads; sweat for spuds, that sort of thing.
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Post by philagardener on Dec 18, 2015 6:58:02 GMT -5
Cheap $ oil is so destructive. Environmental costs are like credit card debt. The consumer charges ahead until the bill collector comes to call, and then it's going to be too late.
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Post by flowerweaver on Dec 18, 2015 10:33:21 GMT -5
Texas has a local food initiative, and any produce grown in the state can be labeled with the Go Texan logo. So, imagine my horror in picking up a bag of Go Texan onions and reading THEY WERE BAGGED IN FLORIDA! Doubly evil--that means they were grown here, shipped there to be bagged, then shipped back! Obviously, the Texas Department of Ag has entirely missed the boat. How I despise greenwashing! |
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Post by richardw on Dec 18, 2015 14:43:13 GMT -5
Thats crazy, surely there must be a packing facility within Texas that could bag onions as cheap as any where else outa state can.
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Post by flowerweaver on Dec 18, 2015 15:01:30 GMT -5
richardw you'd think. I know plenty of unemployed folks around here (most of Texas' onions are grown in the counties south of me) who would gladly do the work. That's the thing about Big Ag: it makes no sense, and yet it continues.
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Post by steev on Dec 18, 2015 18:09:53 GMT -5
If Big Ag got no more subsidies and tax breaks than small diversified farms do, it would soon sing a different tune.
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Post by richardw on Dec 19, 2015 1:44:46 GMT -5
Thats the problem here is that under 'true free trade' no subsidies have been paid out since the late 1980's and yet local producers are expected to compete with subsidized overseas importers.
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Post by steev on Dec 20, 2015 23:12:46 GMT -5
Here in the USA, the most Republican states, that most want Government out of their business, are the ones most supported by federal agricultural subsidies; it's sort of the "keep your government hands off my Medicare" school of non-linear thinking. One needs to remember that however stupid one thinks the average person is, half the population is dumber than that; this is not something many politicians fail to understand, and too often, exploit.
California, producing ~25% of the nation's fresh fruits/vegetables, gets little crop subsidies (there's some cotton grown in SoCal, thanks to irrigation from NorCal, Federal and state water projects, but that's about it); Cali, arguably the 7th largest economy world-wide, sends far more money to the federal government than is returned; in short, the awful Blue-state Californians are supporting the Red-state agribusiness giants that do their farming largely at a distance, with computers, industrial chemical inputs, and global marketing. GMO ag? That's another thing that's big in those Red states that are sucking from the Federal teat, while bitching all the time about Big Government, when they come up for air.
I think Big Ag, like Big Banks, needs to be thoroughly re-vamped, if we are to have any hope of a sustainable ecosystem or economy for the mass of humanity; the favored few can barricade themselves only so long in gated communities, before the vast majority realize that they have no hope unless those gates are stormed. Soylent Green is only an option for sheeple. Am I ranting? Frequently! It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. Cow-shit is fertilizer; bullshit is poison!
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