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Post by templeton on Mar 25, 2016 20:31:22 GMT -5
Was drooling through the Wild Garden catalog, and my thoughts turned to endive/chicory/escarole/witlof. Carole Deppe reckons the two species C.endiva and C.intybus will cross.
Anyone played around with these, or know of any hybrids? I've just sown 3 varieties of chicory.
T
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Post by raymondo on Mar 25, 2016 21:27:19 GMT -5
Not heard of any hybrids here in Oz. According to IPCN, the two species have the same chromosome count. I've just ordered some chicories and one endive which I'll grow over winter. I want to see if frost really does sweeten them.
Chicory
Grumolo rossa
Orchidea rossa
Pan di zucchero
Variegata di Castelfranco
Zuccherina di Trieste
Endive
Verde a cuore pieno
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Post by farmermike on Mar 27, 2016 13:21:55 GMT -5
I have been trialing some chicories this past winter, and hoping to get some crosses between the different varieties, but I believe they are all Cichorium intybus. According to ISSI, C. intybus will be pollinated by C. endivia, but not the other way around. Of the varieties I grew (Sugar Loaf, Castelfranco, Rossa di Treviso, and Variegata di Chioggia), Sugar Loaf was by far the winner. It was the only one to make reliable heads, and even grew a new head after the first was harvested. The upper green parts are kind of bitter, but the lower white stems and ribs are very sweet. It seems to be the same as Pan di Zucchero. Now I'm wondering if I can breed some color into it, while retaining the reliable heading quality. I think it may have just been a bad year for heading crops here; a lot of my cabbages failed to produce heads too. One packet of Variegata di Chioggia turned out to be Catalogna/Italian Dandelion.  The leaves are very bitter, so we haven't eaten much of them yet. But, I was just reading that they need to be soaked in cold water and then become more mild. All the chicories did seem to sweeten up after a little frost, but we didn't have much of that this winter. |
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Post by raymondo on Mar 27, 2016 15:37:39 GMT -5
Some handy info there farmermike. Thanks. A coloured Sugar Loaf would be great to see. |
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Post by steev on Mar 27, 2016 19:52:51 GMT -5
A pot over the dandelions to blanch them can also reduce the bitterness.
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Post by templeton on Mar 29, 2016 0:41:49 GMT -5
Not heard of any hybrids here in Oz. According to IPCN, the two species have the same chromosome count. I've just ordered some chicories and one endive which I'll grow over winter. I want to see if frost really does sweeten them. ChicoryGrumolo rossa Orchidea rossa Pan di zucchero Variegata di Castelfranco Zuccherina di Trieste EndiveVerde a cuore pieno Ray, do you want some Zorzi brand Variegata di Castelfranco, or C.Catalogna 'A foglie larghe del veneto', or Fothergill's Radicchio Palla Rossa? Just sown them and they are all viable. Too much seed for me. T |
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Post by templeton on Mar 29, 2016 0:46:38 GMT -5
farmermike, thanks for that link. some great basic info on breeding that i hadn't come across (not that i've looked too hard) - e.g. root colour in carrots gives info on Dominant and recessive traits - very handy. No wonder i get mostly white roots! T
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Post by raymondo on Mar 29, 2016 5:15:01 GMT -5
Not heard of any hybrids here in Oz. According to IPCN, the two species have the same chromosome count. I've just ordered some chicories and one endive which I'll grow over winter. I want to see if frost really does sweeten them. ChicoryGrumolo rossa Orchidea rossa Pan di zucchero Variegata di Castelfranco Zuccherina di Trieste EndiveVerde a cuore pieno Ray, do you want some Zorzi brand Variegata di Castelfranco, or C.Catalogna 'A foglie larghe del veneto', or Fothergill's Radicchio Palla Rossa? Just sown them and they are all viable. Too much seed for me. T Thanks T but I'll pass. I've ordered Franchi seeds and you always get enough seed to keep a not so small village in whatever it is! If you'd like any of the ones I've ordered feel free to ask. |
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Post by mskrieger on Mar 29, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
I'd be interested to hear what you found. Grew some chicory from Fedco bred by Frank Morton at Wild Garden seeds, it had some crazy name. Very attractive green with red splotches but it tastes terrible, worse than wild dandelion. Does NOT sweeten up with frost at all. Normally I like bitter greens so this variety must be pretty darn yucky. Suspect it was a breeding failure...Fedco has dropped it. I've heard some gardening experts opine that blanched chicories are sweeter than those allowed to color, which may be why Pan di Zucchero is so sweet and white.
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Post by farmermike on Jan 23, 2017 11:36:15 GMT -5
My radicchios are looking pretty good (although planted a little closer together than they would really like).  The one on the lower left, and the the one kitty-corner to it, are Sugar Loaf. The smaller, very dark red ones, are Palla Rossa. These two types seem to have the most reliably dense heads. Since heading qualities are primarily what I am looking for, these two are natural choices to cross with each other.  Some of these have really nice coloration. We'll see if they head-up nicely as well. |
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Post by mskrieger on Jan 23, 2017 12:51:25 GMT -5
Those are looking good! Any taste tests to report yet?
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Post by farmermike on Jan 28, 2017 18:51:02 GMT -5
mskrieger, so far I have harvested 3 individuals this year. This first one was the best. It had a round head and the top leaves were tightly wrapped, so the dense inside was nicely blanched. The white ribs were sweet and there wasn't much bitterness to it at all. This one looks to me like pure Castelfranco.  These other 2 were pretty bitter (particularly the big one on the right), but once they were chopped up and mixed into a salad with lettuce, arugula, bok choi, baby kale, etc., they were really nice. They add a great texture to a mixed salad.  I am generally more interested in the round heads, for the self-blanching qualities, but the latter 2 heads had other nice traits (deep red color; and pronounced vigor), so I think I'll let them contribute to the general population this spring. I think that biggest one is an F1 from last spring, since none of the parents looked quite like that.
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Post by mskrieger on Feb 6, 2017 15:06:30 GMT -5
Thanks for following up. The large green one with red flecks looks like other hybrid chicories I have tried that were very bitter, even after frost. And that's a good looking Castelfranco!
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Post by templeton on Feb 6, 2017 16:00:30 GMT -5
Gave up on mine - all bitter, no heads - but some pretty blue flowers at the moment.
T
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