Tendril-less peas?

[farmermike]

I am growing Sugar Magnolia snap pea for the first time this spring and 4 out of the 18 plants are completely tendril-less. The seeds came from Adaptive Seeds last fall. I know a lot of people here have grown this variety. Has anyone seen this phenotype in the variety?


This seems like an undesirable trait, so I'm assuming I should not save seeds from these plants, or maybe even cull these 4 if I decide to save seed from this batch (I still have more seeds I could plant in the fall). The really odd thing, is that the 4 tendril-less plants are all right next to each other near the middle of the 7' row. So, I guess my real question is: Could this trait be environmentally triggered (by some extra stress such as chemical contamination or much rockier soil in that tiny section of row), or was it genetically predetermined in those seeds.

The odds seem very low that I would have unknowingly planted all 4 tendril-less seeds right next to each other. Thoughts?

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Apr 1, 2016 17:51:19 GMT -5 farmermike said:

I am growing Sugar Magnolia snap pea for the first time this spring and 4 out of the 18 plants are completely tendril-less. The seeds came from Adaptive Seeds last fall. I know a lot of people here have grown this variety. Has anyone seen this phenotype in the variety?


This seems like an undesirable trait, so I'm assuming I should not save seeds from these plants, or maybe even cull these 4 if I decide to save seed from this batch (I still have more seeds I could plant in the fall). The really odd thing, is that the 4 tendril-less plants are all right next to each other near the middle of the 7' row. So, I guess my real question is: Could this trait be environmentally triggered (by some extra stress such as chemical contamination or much rockier soil in that tiny section of row), or was it genetically predetermined in those seeds.

The odds seem very low that I would have unknowingly planted all 4 tendril-less seeds right next to each other. Thoughts?

Hey Farmer Mike,

Yup. Lets see if i can organize my thoughts into a coherent sentence.. Basically the original cross Alan Kapuler made to produce his his hyper-tendrilled aka. semi-leafless peas like Sugar magnolia started with a cross with a parsley-pea type (which i call "a double recessive"). The parsley pea types actually possess two recessive alleles, one which codes for an extra amount of tendrils (af) and the other (tl) which codes for tendrils converted into leaflets. This second one is actually called "tendril-less", so that's pretty easy to remember. Sometimes i believe it's also referred to as "vetch" or "acacia" type plants. data.jic.bbsrc.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pgene/default.asp?ID=669

But the short answer is yeah, it's a recessive trait that sometimes shows up in Sugar Magnolia. But sometimes you will find partial expression of it as an environmental, and not a genetic trait rarely on other pea varieties from time to time.

It's up to you if you like that genetic trait or not. I personally wouldn't save seeds from any like the one in the picture because it neither has hyper-tendrils or even tendrils at all. However last year i had a parsley-type that i did save seeds from despite it being a tall pea with few tendrils to support it. I didn't notice it until late in the season because it's hyper-tendrilled siblings held on to it.

[philagardener]

Alan Kapular bred this trait into Sugar Magnolia (and several other varieties). Short plants with hypertendril traits support themselves well; although Sugar Magnolia grows very tall and requires netting or another support, the extra tendrils help the plants climb. The hypertendril trait was not completely stable when he released the line, so some sources have both forms represented (hypertendril as well as regular leafed plants; of course, out-crossing also can occur).

Many commercial varieties of peas, particularly those grown in Europe, have the trait and it allows denser planting as the plants do not self shade as much. I actually found it a refreshingly different look and I felt the yield was comparable to other varieties in my garden. Enjoy!

[philagardener]

I guess keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) and I were writing at the same time :>)

[farmermike]

Great explanations keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) and philagardener! 

I was surprised to hear you mention Sugar Magnolia having the hyper-tendril trait. None of the plants in my small plot have that. I checked the Adaptive Seeds website and their description doesn't mention hyper-tendril either, and their photo of the variety shows only regular tendrils. I noticed that Peace Seeds does say hyper-tendril though (as well as some other sources). It will be interesting to see what my fall sowing of the rest of the Sugar Magnolia seeds looks like.

I am now thinking I might save the tendril-less seeds separately, and see what comes of them--just out of curiosity!

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

When you posted the photos i did wonder if the hyper-tendril trait was missing from your packet. It's entirely possible that you have a strain that doesn't have it, whether intentional or not. Some people like Hyper-tendrils and some do not. Also, as Phil mentioned Sugar Magnolia was released rather early while it was unstable and all random amounts of each version were present (hyper, normal, and parsley). Even Alan himself says that he will use his "good seed" first and if that gets low he will send out his backup seed which has more of the off types. So who knows. It is kinda funny and weird though that you would get 4 tendril-less in a row and no hyper-tendrils at all so that's a bit odd. Not sure whats going on there.

Regardless i hope you find Sugar Magnolia to be a nice variety. It still is one of my most robust and productive.

[zeedman]

Dr. Kapuler mentions that his seed for Sugar Magnolia could exhibit several traits (including hyper-tendril and parsley-leaf), but the seed I obtained from him grew plants with uniformly tall vines & with normal tendrils (like those on the left side of the farmermike photo). This has remained true for two generations, with a fairly large population size (although there was some variation in pod color).

I also grow a short, parsley-leaved shelling pea developed by Alan... and absent tendrils, you would want a bush habit to keep the peas off the ground. IMO tall, tendril-less vines would be undesirable, since they would just flop onto the ground unless tied up. Hopefully those vines have not yet bloomed, or eliminating those traits from any saved seed could get more complicated. Personally, I would rogue out those plants, and pinch off any pods which might have already set on the normal-tendril plants.

[templeton]

One use you might put those plants to is for stir-fry green pea shoots - the lack of tendrils might make them more desirable for that use.
T