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Post by richardw on Jun 13, 2016 14:43:25 GMT -5
I had always believed that you get the variations in the F2 when crossing. Summer just past i inter planted 36 green chestnut and Whangaparaoa Crown plants, the fruits resulting from that cross have being so different from each other, some that looking like the Crown that had rock hard skins which the crown normally doesn't have, then there were some chestnut looking fruits that are double the size but horrible tasting. Is this normal, do you see those variations in the F1's
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Post by billw on Jun 13, 2016 15:41:29 GMT -5
The simplest explanation is that the seed that you started with was crossed and you are now on F2.
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Post by templeton on Jun 13, 2016 18:40:23 GMT -5
Richard, I'm not sure about chestnuts, but most fruit trees are grafted. In a sense, whether the plant is true breeding - having offspring that really resemble the parent - doesn't matter; since grafts are clones, and will be identical to the parent tree. So if your parent trees are grafted, they are likely to be heterozygous, and the offspring will be all different.
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Post by nicollas on Jun 14, 2016 11:52:17 GMT -5
F1 is uniform if the parents are stable/homozygous. If one or both parent are heterozygous at some locus, seggregation of these starts at the first generation after cross
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Post by richardw on Jun 15, 2016 0:58:24 GMT -5
The simplest explanation is that the seed that you started with was crossed and you are now on F2. Both were pure strains |
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Post by richardw on Jun 15, 2016 1:11:10 GMT -5
Richard, I'm not sure about chestnuts, but most fruit trees are grafted. In a sense, whether the plant is true breeding - having offspring that really resemble the parent - doesn't matter; since grafts are clones, and will be identical to the parent tree. So if your parent trees are grafted, they are likely to be heterozygous, and the offspring will be all different. They are both Cucurbita maxima Gregg |
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Post by richardw on Jun 15, 2016 1:14:59 GMT -5
F1 is uniform if the parents are stable/homozygous. If one or both parent are heterozygous at some locus, seggregation of these starts at the first generation after cross They were both stable as i had grown them alternate years, they wouldn't have crossed with any other plants nearby thanks to the neighbours not into gardening. |
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Post by templeton on Jun 15, 2016 1:34:02 GMT -5
Ahh, chestnut SQUASH! Sorry Richard...Oops...should have paid more attention.
A curious result. Apart from Bill's suggestion, the only thing i can think of is environmental stress, or some reaction to pests...
In the F1s of an interplanted population I would have thought you would see 3 phenotypes - one each the same as the original parents, and then a third of the cross, that should be the result of expression of each dominant or sub-dominant gene...The crosses should all be very similar if the parents were true breeding.
No weird fertiliser or spray drift possible?
T
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Post by richardw on Jun 15, 2016 15:45:02 GMT -5
The name Green chestnut was the name given to this Cucurbita before Koanga gardens received it, its not the same as Chestnut squash, its history pretty much unknown. You're saying that there should be 3 phenotypes, the third being a cross between the two. So that would explain why i'm getting a few odd ball fruits, would it not? and that also the remaining 80% or so are the same as the original parents. Of the original looking ones is it still likely that these have been crossed or would i be better to select from the odd balls?
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Post by templeton on Jun 15, 2016 19:08:32 GMT -5
Richard, on my understanding all the crosses should look the same in the F1. How you select, and whether or not you go back and do a manual cross of the parents will depend a fair bit on what you are after, and whether any of your oddballs are pointing toward your objective.
T
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Post by richardw on Jun 16, 2016 0:55:47 GMT -5
Yes, weve only eaten three of the 50 in storage, these three were odd balls which had nothing worthy about them to save seed. Why i wanted to cross these two was because the green chestnut is a very dry dark orange flesh, but bugger all of it, i thought crossing it with Whangaparaoa Crown which its self is still a nice pumpkin would thicken these flesh. I'll get some photos tomorrow showing ya the differences.
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Post by richardw on Jun 22, 2016 0:38:11 GMT -5
On the left is the Green Chestnut, the right is Whangaparaoa Crown, the middle is one of the odd balls, and not a great keeper either   |
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