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Post by prairiegardens on Dec 15, 2016 1:16:30 GMT -5
Would that behave in the same way as glyphosate, be taken up into the plant? It is an insecticide so would seem that it would have to, most problems seem to be with growing plants being attacked, not the seed. I tried to look it up but got bounced off the site into Canadian info and it wasn't in their list of products here, at least where I got bounced to.
So that sounds like GMO to me, open pollinated or not.
Btw, not sure how open pollination has much to do with it; virtually all commercially grown canola is GM and it certainly volunteers enthusiastically.
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Post by richardw on Dec 15, 2016 13:39:04 GMT -5
What do you mean, a contract? You don't buy GMO seeds, you buy a limited license to use them. That means paperwork. They come with a agreement that you must sign that covers things like only growing one crop and not saving the seed, not using them for research, limitations on pesticide use, etc. People are often afraid that somebody is going to secretly sell them GMO seeds like some kind of drug pusher, but that will never happen because the patent holders have a huge investment in maintaining control of the seed supply. Some seed companies engage in a lot of scaremongering as a marketing technique but, as far as I know, there is not a single company anywhere who will sell packet quantities of GMO seed at all, much less without making you sign a contract. Thanks for explaining that Bill, had no idea thanks to NZ being largely GMO free (for now) |
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Post by billw on Dec 15, 2016 16:57:23 GMT -5
Would that behave in the same way as glyphosate, be taken up into the plant? It is an insecticide so would seem that it would have to, most problems seem to be with growing plants being attacked, not the seed. I tried to look it up but got bounced off the site into Canadian info and it wasn't in their list of products here, at least where I got bounced to. So that sounds like GMO to me, open pollinated or not. Btw, not sure how open pollination has much to do with it; virtually all commercially grown canola is GM and it certainly volunteers enthusiastically. Applying a pesticide to a crop doesn't make it GMO, no matter how the pesticide acts upon it. The pesticide doesn't alter the genome of the plant. Most GMOs are hybrids, maybe all of them - I'm not sure. There is nothing that says that there can't be an OP GMO, but they are typically built on existing hybrid varieties to enhance products that the company already offers. Just because a crop volunteers, doesn't mean that it is OP in the sense that the term is used in seed catalogs. Most GMOs can volunteer, but because they are built on hybrids, they won't be true to type. |
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Post by richardw on Dec 16, 2016 13:28:57 GMT -5
Over all modern farmers today are not the tough bastards they once were thanks to mechanization,seems there's a machine for every farming process, gees even for brushing ya bloody teeth too just to save ya from moving ya shoulders.
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Post by gilbert on Dec 17, 2016 13:18:25 GMT -5
I'd think the GMO producers would be pleased if they COULD keep their plants from escaping into the "wild," though they will be unable to do so, of course. In my opinion, the dislike is mutual; they don't want us to have them, we don't want them.
I suppose some think companies will spread GMOs far and wide in hopes that they could control the food supply; but this would be silly. GMOs reproduce like other seeds. To control things through legal means, they would have to test every backyard garden and sue the owners. This would be difficult and counterproductive, to say the least.
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Post by walt on Dec 17, 2016 14:28:06 GMT -5
"if it doesn't come with a contract, it isn't GMO."
Not true. The only counter-example I know of it the Golden rice, rice with yellow pro-vitamine A.
It wasn't made by a huge multi-national corporation. It was made by a guy that was concerned about the lack of vitamin A in the diets of poor people who live on rice. Sure, a few hot pepper plants would supply the needed vit. A. But many people con't get much but rice, white rice at that. So, with good intentions some guy added a gene from Narcissis to rice, and released it to the public, no patent. OP, too. And others have crossed it in to other rice breeding lines.
Last I heard, the golden rice varieties yield less than non-golden rice, but breeding was improving the yeild.
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Post by billw on Dec 17, 2016 14:54:37 GMT -5
I'm not an expert on the subject, but it sure looks like they require an agreement in place... Golden Rice licensing: www.goldenrice.org/Content1-Who/who4_IP.phpIs there a company out there that will sell me a packet of Golden Rice seed, no strings attached? |
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Post by reed on Dec 17, 2016 17:59:01 GMT -5
I suppose some think companies will spread GMOs far and wide in hopes that they could control the food supply; but this would be silly. GMOs reproduce like other seeds. To control things through legal means, they would have to test every backyard garden and sue the owners. This would be difficult and counterproductive, to say the least. Unless, you have to prove it isn't, instead of them proving it is. All that's needed is some right minded legislators. |
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Post by gilbert on Dec 17, 2016 18:49:50 GMT -5
Alarming thought. But I still don't know if it would be worth it for them, as far as PR goes . . . after all almost everyone eats the Big Ag stuff anyway. For a while it looked like the organic food movement was going to challenging them, but then they coopted it by buying up organic brands. The actual local food scene rarely goes much beyond tomatoes, and as more people move into cities, the local food movement will become more and more a feel good thing. As far as I can see, they don't have much to worry about. In any case, they are already busy coopting the local food movement too; just look at Whole Foods.
I think that the powers that be have found that cooption, with some help from human laziness and social trends, works a lot better then brute force.
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Post by jondear on Dec 17, 2016 19:46:52 GMT -5
What bothers me more and more is described in fedco's catalog and website about "one time seed use". I've noticed allium and brassica to be especially tagged this way... Maybe it's to promote the ossi varieties, or just a forewarning... Either way, I'm a little aggravated by it.
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Post by gilbert on Dec 17, 2016 23:36:40 GMT -5
That is really strange. For instance, that label is on Bull's Blood Beet. Now I can buy that beet variety many other places; without any such restriction. Why would that be?
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Post by nicollas on Dec 18, 2016 1:18:20 GMT -5
Isnt that related to CMS ?
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Post by gilbert on Dec 18, 2016 14:35:47 GMT -5
Bull's blood beet is an OP, not a hybrid, so I don't think so.
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Post by jondear on Dec 18, 2016 15:37:13 GMT -5
I think it is more related to sticking it to the 20 or so guys (or gals) that would actually try to breed something useful ( self fertile) out of it...
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Post by prairiegardens on Dec 18, 2016 15:53:14 GMT -5
"if it doesn't come with a contract, it isn't GMO." Not true. The only counter-example I know of it the Golden rice, rice with yellow pro-vitamine A. It wasn't made by a huge multi-national corporation. It was made by a guy that was concerned about the lack of vitamin A in the diets of poor people who live on rice. Sure, a few hot pepper plants would supply the needed vit. A. But many people con't get much but rice, white rice at that. So, with good intentions some guy added a gene from Narcissis to rice, and released it to the public, no patent. OP, too. And others have crossed it in to other rice breeding lines. Last I heard, the golden rice varieties yield less than non-golden rice, but breeding was improving the yeild. Unfortunately I do believe you have been suckered by the pr. Golden rice was patented. It was developed with Syngenta and Monsanto and Bayer supposedly " for humanitarian reasons" which was precisely the same avowed rationale for promoting other patented seed dependent on their chemicals and technology. Now a common misconception promoted heavily is that only GMO and chem ag will provide for the world's growing population, which of course is precisely wrong. In order for someone to get the rda of vitamin A I have read that a child would have to eat something like several pounds of it per day, hardly a reasonable expectation in normal circumstances, much less where food of any kind is difficult to access. Otoh a semi tropical vine, Malabar spinach which grows abundantly supplies 260+% of the rda if they eat 100 grams of leaf daily. So if they had any " humanitarian" intentions it seems they are going about it in a highly questionable fashion. They would have had much more impact much more quickly in that regard if they taught more people how to grow plants which are already providing the nutrition required. But such plants cannot be patented. Yet. I cannot make links with this thing but Google golden rice "save a million kids a year" GM watch. I hit hit the wrong thing when going for the edit button and now can't figure out how to take off the approve thingy, didn't mean to up vote my own post!! IPads are not a friend to stubby fingers... |
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