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Post by steev on Jan 12, 2017 2:13:27 GMT -5
In my favorite produce mart, today, I saw a display of "Golden Gooseberries": pretty (expensive) clamshells of ground cherries, which have no resemblance to gooseberries, IMHO. This sort of thing depresses me as much as displays of "red seedless grapes", "green seedless grapes", or "black seedless grapes"; why do they bother to note the color? Do they think people are blind? The loss of varietal names in the marketing of produce is, IMHO, part and parcel of the corporatization of food, the reduction of genetic diversity, and the loss of people's experience of their food, as a touchstone of family or place. There is much to be said for the idea that "you are what you eat". So, is the message: "eat generic food; you are generic, and equally fungible"?
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Post by rowan on Jan 12, 2017 3:20:08 GMT -5
I agree, and I also am annoyed at the people who should know better (In my opinion) that don't care at all about varieties.
I was at a market last month and a garlic grower was selling two varieties of garlic. I was looking for some new varieties to replace all the ones I lost in our floods last winter so asked him the names. He replied that no-one cares so he calls them after his home town - Creswick red and Creswick white. He also seemed to have no idea, or didn't care, that different varieties have different flavours and heat ratings. Surely he should know the names so he can give more info to his customers.
This is an issue I have become quite vocal about over the last few years. It not only makes it hard for the consumer to choose but it is disrespectful to the breeder, as well as confusing for everyone who never knows what variety they actually have. It is on a level with the seed companies that rename varieties just so they can have 'exclusive' varieties to make more money.
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Post by khoomeizhi on Jan 12, 2017 5:16:14 GMT -5
no, they don't look like gooseberries, but have been called 'cape gooseberries' in some places for a while. i agree that finding a more accurate name to use would help dispel some of the general ignorance.
in a slightly different direction, it seems like a solid 2/3 at least of 'yukon gold' potatoes in grocery stores (being sold under a variety name, after all) aren't yukons (which have some fairly distinct features); many aren't even yellow-fleshed. no one i've mentioned this to seems to think it matters.
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Post by philagardener on Jan 12, 2017 6:27:36 GMT -5
in a slightly different direction, it seems like a solid 2/3 at least of 'yukon gold' potatoes in grocery stores (being sold under a variety name, after all) aren't yukons (which have some fairly distinct features); many aren't even yellow-fleshed. no one i've mentioned this to seems to think it matters. It seems like the name has become a plant equivalent of kleenex or band aids. I don't think I've seen a real Yukon Gold in the markets here in years . . . |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 12, 2017 8:19:26 GMT -5
My personal bee in my bonnet is greengage plums. Somewhere along the line, some produce person got it into their head that ALL green fleshed plums are greengages (even though the large fruited kind of plum most of us are used to in the supermarkets isn't even the same SPECIES). This gets compounded with the American idea that "bigger is better" to create a situation where sour mealy Japanese green plums fill the market shelves, while real greengages are treated as an exotic fruit (and priced so) that you will only see occasionally at gourmet food stores or, if you are lucky farmers markets (or, of course, if you grow them yourself).
That being said, there is a situation where I think that adding the color to the supermarket description is perfectly appropriate; where the color refers to the INSIDE and is not obvious from the exterior. If I see a pile of dragonfruit, it is perfectly OK if it says "red" or "white"* because I know that the insides can be either and might care (though they can also do the other supermarket trick of taking one, splitting it in half, and putting it in a shrink wrapped box to show the insides.
This also would apply to blood oranges (now that most of the new commercial strains no longer have the obvious blush on the skin itself. and black soybeans (if you needed to know if the interior was yellow or green)**
* Though the fact that there also exists a form of dragonfruit that is while inside AND out could make that a little confusing. Maybe they could call it "white inside"
** If the Chinese bothered to differentiate, which as far as I can tell, they don't (a bag of black soybeans will be a mixture of yellow and green cotyledons there, whereas American tend to be one or the other)
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Post by ferdzy on Jan 12, 2017 8:31:13 GMT -5
"Peter Henderson once lamented that it was the demise of the "particular customer" that eventually changed the way market gardeners did business. Boston and Philadelphia had been bastions of the type of consumers who demanded to know the background of their produce, how it was cultivated, and the comparative tastes of different varieties, and tolerated no compromises in freshness and quality. This gave rise to hundreds of vegetables that sold themselves by virtue of having passed through this critical gauntlet: Boston lettuce, Philadelphia Market tomato, and much more. The New York market was different. As long as the produce looked good, it was possible to sell it. Henderson's greatest fear was that this standard should prevail nationwide once vast quantities of produce began moving across the country rather than coming from nearby farms. He was to be proved correct."
From Heirloom Vegetable Gardening, by William Woys Weaver.
Not a new complaint... still, true though.
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Post by prairiegardens on Jan 12, 2017 12:09:40 GMT -5
About the only thing here that is variety labelled are apples. It might be a good marketing ploy to label stuff with the variety name, although people probably would be nervous that if someone saw for example their Paul Robeson tomato selling well everyone would start to grow it. Might be worth a shot though, it also might help educate people to the differences between varieties and help at least some to start developing a discriminating palate.
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Nat
gopher
Posts: 7 
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Post by Nat on Jan 12, 2017 12:42:47 GMT -5
This sort of thing depresses me as much as displays of "red seedless grapes", "green seedless grapes", or "black seedless grapes"; why do they bother to note the color? Do they think people are blind? I can see what color the grapes are, but labels like that help me to find the right price tag. Especially when the signs are on the wrong pile of produce. |
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Post by khoomeizhi on Jan 12, 2017 18:17:38 GMT -5
It seems like the name has become a plant equivalent of kleenex or band aids. I don't think I've seen a real Yukon Gold in the markets here in years . . . [/quote] we actually get the real ones from time to time, but it's getting less frequent all the time... |
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Post by templeton on Jan 12, 2017 23:28:04 GMT -5
There is an interesting state by state differentiation at least with potatoes here. In Tasmania there is considerable discrimination between potato types, but my local (independent) supermarket sells washed potatoes, baby potatoes, and unwashed potatoes. sometimes we get red skinned potatoes. This was the norm for decades, although now the big two supermarket chains here (Australia has the most concentrated food distribution in the world by some accounts with two giant supermarket chains selling 80% of our food link here) are selling varietal potatoes - but they are all new varieties, and I have no idea what they are good for or taste like. |
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Post by steev on Jan 13, 2017 1:47:24 GMT -5
This sort of thing depresses me as much as displays of "red seedless grapes", "green seedless grapes", or "black seedless grapes"; why do they bother to note the color? Do they think people are blind? I can see what color the grapes are, but labels like that help me to find the right price tag. Especially when the signs are on the wrong pile of produce. Granted, but all three were the same price (and equally out-of-season; from SoHem or storage, who knows, also not the sort of thing being advertised?). Organic apples, having more cachet, were varietally listed, but why is that more important? Conventional or organic: the variety is the same; are the "organic foodies" the only people to whom this information might be useful, or are they just the only ones who want/care to know? I greatly love Navel Oranges, but there are clearly different varieties,and some really suck; it pisses me off when I buy some that are great, but the next week they're awful; all Navel oranges, but just not even close to the same. I can see why not differentiating variety/provenance would make marketing sense, but doesn't it seem like piggy-backing crap on quality? I'm not saying that I want the failure of the farmer who's growing crap, but maybe he ought not be buoyed up through the collusion of the marketer and the ignorance of the clientele; maybe lousy sales would indicate he should change his crops. Life is hard, and the only defense against that is to get good at what you do; to enter into collusion to protect you from your inadequacy is both dishonest and perilous. We didn't get off the plains of East Africa by being propped up in our accustomed life-style; we got off by innovation for survival. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 13, 2017 8:19:48 GMT -5
I greatly love Navel Oranges, but there are clearly different varieties,and some really suck; it pisses me off when I buy some that are great, but the next week they're awful; all Navel oranges, but just not even close to the same. I can see why not differentiating variety/provenance would make marketing sense, but doesn't it seem like piggy-backing crap on quality? I'm not saying that I want the failure of the farmer who's growing crap, but maybe he ought not be buoyed up through the collusion of the marketer and the ignorance of the clientele; maybe lousy sales would indicate he should change his crops. This seems to be a real problem with citrus of all sorts. If I want to get blood oranges, all I will see is a sign that says "blood oranges"; no notice of what type (yes the different types taste different). This is complicated by the fact that I don't think the SELLERS bother to differentiate. All too often I have seen the same pile; a small mountain of what I think is called the Tangier blood orange (round slight red blush on one side, medium red flesh, and really acidic) with one or two of the older Moro blood orange (sort of ovoid, red rind blush that covers most to all of the skin and make the orange look more or less brown, deep red purple flesh; bitterish flavor) which I what I want. And of course, there is the market that doesn't remember there is a difference between blood oranges and mango oranges (trust me, I you ever had a mango orange, you would DEFINITELY know the difference) I also feel there should be a market split on limes, between the light colored shiny limes (Creole?) which are good for juice (when I can't get keys) and the bumpy dark green kind (Tahitian?) which are not. And finally there are mandarins/clementines there is only one type I really like (well two if you count the dekapon/"sumo mandarin") which I think is called the Minkan (tiny, deep red, deeply sweet). But all are massed as one and it is up to me to work out which is which, assuming there are any at all (I know the type is still grown, as I think it is the variety grown for the people who make canned mandarin orange slices, but finding it fresh is a challenge. And of course, my Yuzu rant goes here, but I have bored everyone on the forum with that one too many times. |
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Post by nicollas on Jan 13, 2017 8:41:19 GMT -5
And what about nurseries that sell plants by the species only (just "black currant")
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Post by Earl on Jan 13, 2017 11:10:05 GMT -5
good reading everyone, thanks...kind of reminds me of "baby carrots"  so instill knowledge in me, how does one distinguish a real Yukon variety? thanks ahead of time, Earl |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 13, 2017 13:12:36 GMT -5
I greatly love Navel Oranges, but there are clearly different varieties,and some really suck; it pisses me off when I buy some that are great, but the next week they're awful; all Navel oranges, but just not even close to the same. Yeah. Same with mangoes that NEVER ripen (presumably because they have been frozen in shipping). Awful. Some are fantastic, others just rot for no apparent reason. With the oranges though i do wonder if it is because of variety differences or because they pick oranges green and then spray them with artificial ripening gasses later. Oranges that are naturally allowed to ripen are so much better. I really like the new pink oranges. I think there is only one kind, so no variety name needed. It would be really clever if someone bred them with lemons to then have pink lemons for pink lemonade. |
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