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Post by Rutos on Jul 7, 2018 6:56:37 GMT -5
does any body else know of other dominant/ recessive traits? Well, it seems to me that the yellow spots are dominant from the Moon and Stars watermelon. I've noticed that in several first-generation crosses with Moon and Stars as the father plant (in 2017). I didn't grow any F2 seeds of those crosses, this year. However, this year, I've got three different kinds of plants with stars: Mississippi Cobb Gem x Moon and Stars (or a Moon and Stars cross), Ledmon x Moon and Stars F1, and Black Diamond x Moon and Stars (or a Moon and Stars cross). |
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Post by shmack1 on Jul 7, 2018 7:00:03 GMT -5
does any body else know of other dominant/ recessive traits? Well, it seems to me that the yellow spots are dominant from the Moon and Stars watermelon. I've noticed that in several first-generation crosses with Moon and Stars as the father plant. I have seen that to, in my yellow LR I only planted seed from yellow melons and had a few red fleshed moon and star types, show up on the F1s |
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Post by shmack1 on Jul 7, 2018 7:09:15 GMT -5
To be honest I haven't paid to much attention to seed traits , I do know the f1s were still very mixed with seed type so there wasn't any extreme dominance of any one phenotype
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Post by Rutos on Jul 7, 2018 7:16:43 GMT -5
To be honest I haven't paid to much attention to seed traits , I do know the f1s were still very mixed with seed type so there wasn't any extreme dominance of any one phenotype Actually, nevermind that post! I deleted it. The darker, mottled seeds (or whatever you call the most common seed-type in grocery store watermelons) were dominant to the white in my experience, so far. I just forgot that my Ledmon x Moon and Stars seeds (which were white) were F1 and shouldn't express any changes until the next generation (since they're seeds and all—not plants where the dominant traits show in the F1). But, I have seen F2 seeds where the darker seeds of other crosses were dominant. The smaller seed size accompanied the dark seeds (I don't know if they're separate genes or not). The darker seeds seem more dense (and more chewable), too. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jul 7, 2018 12:21:57 GMT -5
I just tried to simplify the seed genetics into general color schemes from the data from that link above. It should be generally more dark color over less color and pretty much anything is dominant over white, though i think there are pure white and white with little black corners. I completely ignored seed size because it got complicated quick. There is even a gene where you can get seeds the size of tomato seeds and i assume they are still viable, but i assume that might be more rare. Yeah, the moon and stars trait is dominant. You can even see it in the foliage. cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cgc/cgcgenes/wmgenes/gene12wmelon.html |
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Post by lochaberbreeder on May 25, 2019 20:27:25 GMT -5
Poole et al. (1941) studied the inheritance of several color types including black, tan, red, clump, white tan-tip, and white pink-tip and found that these phenotypes can be explained by a 3-locus model. The black seed-color is found to be dominant over other colors, consistent with previous reports. Poole et al. proposed three genes r, t and w that interact to determine the seed color. From their crossing experiments, Poole et al. assigned the genotypes RRTTWW for black seeds, RRttWW for tan, RRTTww for clump, RRttww for white tan-tip, rrttWW for red, and rrttww for white pink-tip. They did not have observe genotypes rrTTWW and rrTTww in their experiments. From earlier study and the above genotypes, it can be inferred that rrTTWW should correspond to green seed color (McKay, 1936; Poole, 1944).
Since we mentionned seeds, a few questions...
What is "clump"? (RRTTww)
And has anyone observed what rrTTww would be?
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 26, 2019 17:16:07 GMT -5
Poole et al. (1941) studied the inheritance of several color types including black, tan, red, clump, white tan-tip, and white pink-tip and found that these phenotypes can be explained by a 3-locus model. The black seed-color is found to be dominant over other colors, consistent with previous reports. Poole et al. proposed three genes r, t and w that interact to determine the seed color. From their crossing experiments, Poole et al. assigned the genotypes RRTTWW for black seeds, RRttWW for tan, RRTTww for clump, RRttww for white tan-tip, rrttWW for red, and rrttww for white pink-tip. They did not have observe genotypes rrTTWW and rrTTww in their experiments. From earlier study and the above genotypes, it can be inferred that rrTTWW should correspond to green seed color (McKay, 1936; Poole, 1944). Since we mentionned seeds, a few questions... What is "clump"? (RRTTww)And has anyone observed what rrTTww would be?I think "clump" is basically this type seed coat that i was referring to as "brownish with black spots". I think it is referring to the black speckled appearance, but i could be wrong. Since the original research did not include photos (as far as i am aware) we are left to speculate a bit. keen101.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/watermelonseedgenetics1.pngThis is a photo i made that aimed at simplifying it a bit and turning that data into real world examples that we could understand. I left out green seeds at the time because i thought they were relatively uncommon and also because i didn't have any real good photos of green seeds. I now have a few good photos of green seeds, so i am planning on redoing it soon. keen101.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/exploring-crazy-watermelon-genetics/biolumo.com/watermelon_genetics.htmlas far as rrTTww.... i have no idea really. It's possible some sort of epistasis could be going on that without the dominant R_ geneotype that the result is just white seeds. On the other hand i have a significant amount of seeds in my landrace population that are GREY. Since the literature makes no mention of grey seeds it either does not fit the three gene model or possibly could be rrTTww. Regardless i find it interesting. the confusion between what might be called "tan", "light-brown" or "reddish-brown" and "grey" also adds some confusion into the mix. Without pictures it's hard to know what one person is calling what color. |
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Post by lochaberbreeder on May 26, 2019 19:39:56 GMT -5
Given access to black and white and crossing them together, should be possible with F2s to observe just about every possible combination of those. I believe there are other genes than those three involved in what seeds can look like, though, but that'd still be an interesting experiment.
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