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Post by richardw on Mar 27, 2018 21:00:15 GMT -5
Make you wonder if the fava strain that ive gown for 30 years has a adapted to the summers here because it thrived during the recent record warm summer. Over 20 days over 30Cdeg 86F, most days over 25C - 77F, it was the warmer nights over all that pushed up the mean temps. That wouldn't be what you call a long cool growing season.
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Post by mskrieger on Mar 28, 2018 12:17:02 GMT -5
Make you wonder if the fava strain that ive gown for 30 years has a adapted to the summers here because it thrived during the recent record warm summer. Over 20 days over 30Cdeg 86F, most days over 25C - 77F, it was the warmer nights over all that pushed up the mean temps. That wouldn't be what you call a long cool growing season. Richard, your summer would still count as fairly cool around here  . In my experience, favas need to do most of their growing when the temperature is below 24C - 75F, or they get diseased. They can mature viable seed in hot weather, but the plants are small. If we ever find a way to exchange seed (my birthday is right around fava planting time, btw  maybe I'll trial your variety. But I have a similar New England climate as oxbowfarm , albeit a bit warmer, and favas just can't cut it. The amount of time between fava-killing black frost and daytime temps of 26C - 80F+ is too short, less than 90 days, and the plants stay too small to produce enough beans to be worth it. I planted a patch 20x30 feet one year and got enough favas to cook one meal for four people. And that was my best year, planting a huge diversity of favas. I saved seed from the best plants several years in a row and never got anywhere. The plants and yield stayed small. Some folks in Maine grow favas during high summer with good success because it stays cool and pleasant there, rarely warmer than 25C -77F. And dave , this may show the limitations of landraces--I think each species has an absolute limit as to the conditions it can tolerate. You can stretch them, but short of a lucky mutation you can't bust them totally. |
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Post by richardw on Mar 28, 2018 15:24:57 GMT -5
Its probably to the limit what favas would handle here, had a block growing 1m and a bit tall during mid summer that showed signs stress during a few 35Cdeg 95F days, too many days that those and i can see it would wear the plant down, more so if they are larger plants too.
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Post by mskrieger on Mar 28, 2018 15:37:09 GMT -5
Its probably to the limit what favas would handle here, had a block growing 1m and a bit tall during mid summer that showed signs stress during a few 35Cdeg 95F days, too many days that those and i can see it would wear the plant down, more so if they are larger plants too. Mine tend to turn black and die at those temperatures, but the seeds are viable. I've never had a plant grow 1m high...usually just half that! |
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Post by richardw on Mar 28, 2018 16:38:03 GMT -5
Would take a few days of 35C to kill them? past years my line has had a few 38cdeg and didn't kill them. Here's a photo just taken, show how tall they get full height, now having good wind shelter helps hold them up and maybe a bit grow taller, before the trees were planted they would still nearly as tall but on a 45% lean. Sheltered garden are a white fly magnet. ive had to have a face mask to sow wheat in where the pumpkins were, huge numbers of WF  |
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Post by DarJones on Mar 30, 2018 23:29:07 GMT -5
Not going to weigh in on the fava beans, grew them years ago and decided I do not like the flavor. Landrace seed can be saved year after year with relatively high retention of diversity. Turns out that diversity promotes production which in some landraces can equal the performance of hybrids. Look up the history of Reid's Yellow Dent corn and you will find a landrace developed by crossing two different varieties then selecting from the offspring. Another advantage is adaptability to climate variation is present in a landrace but not necessarily in a stable open pollinated variety or a hybrid. This requires me to grow different varieties of beans than a grower in Oxbow's area. I have to have a ton of heat tolerance so Rattlesnake is one of the better producers. By growing a landrace of beans, even though they are normally inbreeders, I can rapidly select the plants that produce in my climate. I love Fortex beans, but they are so sensitive to heat that I rarely get more than 1/3 the production of an adapted bean. A few years ago, I crossed Fortex X a highly disease resistant small black bean from ARS-Grin that is very heat tolerant. I will be growing the F3 seed this year. Give me another 3 years and I should have a stable bean that produces high eating quality beans like Fortex but with better heat and disease tolerance than Rattlesnake. Here is the male parent. npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?1173491 |
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Post by steev on Mar 31, 2018 0:06:05 GMT -5
Hey! Glad to see you. Don't seem you've been shaking your rain-rattle my way much; I've got 4% Native American genes; help out a cousin; things are looking a tad dry here, after a one-year break in several-year's drought.
Interesting about Fortex; won't be growing them.
Did you try small fava pods as green beans or fava tips as greens; admittedly, fresh favas are a PITA to prepare, but lovely when you're having a "friend" for dinner, with a nice chianti.
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Post by reed on Apr 3, 2018 3:41:09 GMT -5
Comments in some other threads reminded me of a disadvantage of landrace gardening, at least the way I do it. Once I get a collection of seeds, I just plant it. Whatever does well just becomes what I keep growing and I don't keep pedigrees or much records at all. I think a lot of people even here on the forum like to have that info so it causes a little problem when it comes time to make trades.
My tomatoes for example just come in three basic types, big and tasty for sandwiches and slices, big and solid, mostly OX heart shaped with few seeds for processing and small and sweet for snacks in the garden or salads. A lot have flowers open enough to attract the little micro bees so some crossing is happening but I don't know what with what let alone the F generation of the cross. I just photograph favorite ones and save the seeds with the picture so I know what I want to plant the next year.
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Post by mskrieger on Apr 4, 2018 15:37:25 GMT -5
Would take a few days of 35C to kill them? past years my line has had a few 38cdeg and didn't kill them. Here's a photo just taken, show how tall they get full height, now having good wind shelter helps hold them up and maybe a bit grow taller, before the trees were planted they would still nearly as tall but on a 45% lean. Sheltered garden are a white fly magnet. ive had to have a face mask to sow wheat in where the pumpkins were, huge numbers of WF Beautiful shot. The heat doesn't kill them outright; it's more subtle. First, they will germinate and start to grow when the temps are near freezing, but they won't grow fast. Then, it warms up too quickly for them to reach a good size; so usually around 2 feet tall when it gets hot. The hot weather causes them to set seed immediately (if they have flowers) and then they get a disease involving black spots all over. The seed is usually fine, but there's not much of it. Yield is usually just a single pod per plant, sometimes two. |
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Post by steev on Apr 4, 2018 17:51:17 GMT -5
I tend to get the same sparse yield, but at least they start earlier than most other things and fix nitrogen, also they sprout ~98% reliably.
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. In my experience, favas need to do most of their growing when the temperature is below 24C - 75F, or they get diseased. They can mature viable seed in hot weather, but the plants are small.
maybe I'll trial your variety. But I have a similar New England climate as 
