Starting Maple Tree Seeds

[reed]

I have some beautiful maple trees I'm watching in hopes of being there at the right time when the seeds start dropping. Has anyone started them from seed? Stuff I find on the web sounds wrong to me, for one thing it talks about collecting them in the fall when they drop in spring. What I'm wondering specifically is if they need to lay around all summer and the following winter to sprout the next spring or can they just be planted and sprout the same spring they drop? 

[jocelyn]

tHE ONES THAT DROP IN SPRING, GROW RIGHT AWAY. tHE ONES THAT DROP IN FALL, NEED A WINTER NAP FIRST.

[jocelyn]

Oopa, caps lock, not shouting

[walt]

OK, some maple species drop seeds in late spring.  Other species drop seeds in the fall.
Silver maples and red maples here, Kansas, drop seeds in late spring or very early summer.  Those seeds need to be raked up and planted soon after they drop.  I have planted fresh seeds in rows in the garden and they pop right up.  But transplanting sets them back some.  They did OK, but I got better results digging a hole where I wanted mature maples.  I'd throw in a handful of seeds and mix them into loose dirt in the bottom of the hole.  Then I'd keep them watered until they were up.  It is very dry here.  And I'd thin the seedlings and wish I'd planted only a half or quarter handful.  I had to keep removing new seedlings as long as I kept watering them.  And I watered as needed all the first summer.
I only did this one summer. Success rate was 100% and I had no reason to do it again.  That is, 100% of the holes had many seeds.  I have no idea % of seeds germinated, but a lot of them did.
One seed dealer on the internet offers both fresh and dried seeds.  They say the dried seeds have a double dormancy and require a winter, a summer, and another winter.  I have never tried that.  I go by the saying, "If they're dried, they're fried."
Japanese maples, ginnala maples, hedge maples, and some others drop seeds in the fall.  I've planted them immediately and watered some over the winter if it is dry.  Good germination in the spring.  I've never counted, it might have been 50% or less.  Didn't care.  Seed was collected free and little effort on them in the winter garden.  I've never bought maple seed.  Silver and red maples and their hybrids are common street trees.  When they drop leaves, seeds make drifts to the top of the street curbs.  I can gather 5 gallons in minutes.
Japanese, ginnala, and hedge maples are less common but Salina, KS, has several on public property.  I talked to the guy in charge of them.  He said their policy is the public is welcome to pick seeds from public trees, but not to climb up after them.
In rainy weather, the drifts of maple seeds will be sprouting before they are gathered.  That is what gave me the idea of planting maple seeds.
Good luck with your maple crop.  I hope you aren't hoping to tap them in just a few years.

[jocelyn]

It's surprising how fast they do grow though. Sugar maples, here, put on an inch and a half of circumference every year, more or less.
(PEI) It takes two or three years to get their feet down to the permanant water table, but they grow fast after that.

[reed]

Yea, that is what I was hoping to hear and also what makes sense with the spring dropped seeds. The trees are loaded with seeds right now. Most I want seeds from are by the grave yard in the little town where I work so I can keep an eye on them. The other one is in another little town a few miles away but it is the most beautiful tree I'v ever seen. It's buds, flowers, seed wings and young leaves are very red. I imagine they are hybrids or descendants of hybrids but that's fine. If I can catch the seeds at proper time and start a lot of them I'll get some nice trees, most of which I'll pot up to sell. By leaf shape they are all what folks here call hard maple or sugar maple.

(add) I don't think I know my maple trees very well. I went and looked at the big ones in the woods and they are leafing out but are not making seeds yet. I think they are true sugar maples, the leaves look like Canada's maple leaf. The ones in the towns I'm wanting to gather seed from have similar leaf shape but are making tons of seed right now. Those are in towns in the valley right by the river so quite a different micro-climate. Maybe that makes the difference. Anyway  I guess, sugar maple, silver maple, red maple really are different.  I think silver maple is what we always called water maple, they make huge amounts of seeds in the spring. Their leaves are shaped different, generally lighter green and silvery on the bottom. 

I don't really care, I just hope to be there at the right time to collect seeds from the beautiful red ones. 

[jocelyn]

If they are dropping in spring, they are not sugar maple or Norway maple...but if they are beautiful, who cares.
Maples can hybridize, they are good at that. I suspect sugar/Norway hybrids, silver hybrids, who knows what else is possible.
There are lovely red Norways at the graveyard at the bottom of the hill from our place. Their seedlings are red quite a bit of the time too.
You have to start them outside though, as they need sunlight, not light through glass, to stay red.
The back of the seedleaf is red in the ones that will be red, so you can tell even before the true leaves come.

[coppice]

Drying maple seed (for me) usually has meant that those seed are dead. Rehydrating seed and a winters cold treatment can bring back maple seed, sometimes. Fresh seed straight into a damp paper towel, and into a baggies in the fridge, has been the most dependable way to manage maple tree seed. Or most any other tree seed for that matter.

Dried tree seed held from year to year at room temperature are just about certain to be dead seed. Too often some seed houses are deluded to believe a very cold freezer is a sovereign fix. IMO it is not.

[jocelyn]

Yes, you are right, too dry means dead for some kinds. Woody Plant Seed manual is helpful, and I'll see if I can find a link on line. If I do, I'll post it. I have grown elms (U americana) from seed frozen 11 years, some other frozen seeds too, but it really depends on what kind of tree.
Hardened off chestnut (castanea) will survive a light freeze in the fridge, and if buried down about 5 or 6 cm, will winter on PEI.
The deep freeze, minus 18, zero F., kills it. I don't know how cold the planted ones get in winter, but most survive.

[jocelyn]

Here is the link.

rngr.net/publications/wpsm
Go to chapt 4, storage of seeds.

There is a huge variation in what each species needs...........
just look it up for what you have.

[reed]

The trees by the graveyard did not make any or very few good seeds, they fell off before maturing or were empty. The best tree in the other town however, made jillions. I got there just in time as a storm had washed them into the gutter and the top two or three inches had already dried out. I scooped up thousands and mixed them with some wood chips and laid out a bed about 3' x 7'. That was exactly 7 days ago and I'v watered them twice a day. Looks like so far I have in neighborhood of three or four per sq foot. That's plenty even if more don't sprout. I'll just leave them be till late fall and transplant the ones I want and pot up the rest.

Here is what they looked like this morning.

[jocelyn]

Nice haelthy looking little fellows

[prairiegarden]

Manitoba Maple which is considered barely a Maple apparently, is a weed as persistent as dandelions. I've got one that's been cut back to the ground yearly for 4 years and it's already 4 feet tall again, it got pulled out once but obviously didn't get all the root. It or it's cousins have volunteered everywhere in the garden. At my land I dumped some cuttings into a sand hollow and ignored them, assuming they would dry out and become fill, there are now three healthy trees growing energetically in spite of having been heavily browsed. by moose over last winter.. I'm leaving them to grow for firewood. The official word is they won't grow in sand. Nobody told them that apparently. One thing going for them is that the last infestation by forest webworms, the maples were the only trees untouched, the caterpillars went after everything else from the alfalfa to the pine. Diversity is a wonderful thing...no idea if other maples have similar resistance or not.Supposedly we are too cold here for 'real' maples.

[reed]

 A lot, well most of my baby Maple trees dried from drought. I think it is partly cause I mixed up the seeds in the wood mulch to help distribute them more evenly in the bed and that stuff really dries out. Anyway I had way more than I needed anyway so focused on keeping just one small area watered. 

Here are some of the the ones I have been caring for. I have plenty of them to plant here and there around the yard. 



Now, I'v noticed the fall seeding Maples are getting ready to drop seeds. I think if I'm able to collect a good number of those I'll plant some immediately and let nature take its course and keep some in the fridge to plant next spring. 

[reed]

I forgot to pay attention and look for seeds that drop in fall, maybe it's not too late. I'll check out out some nice trees this weekend. The babies pictured above are 3 + feet tall now. Never dreamed they would grow so fast or I would have direct seeded in the spots where I want them rather than in a bed to transplant. I guess I'll just sacrifice smaller ones that are too close to the ones I'll be moving rather than disturbing the roots of the ones I want.