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Post by Srdjan Gavrilovic on Jun 12, 2018 2:01:13 GMT -5
Last year, aunt of my wife visited us and stayed with us for few months. Every time that we had bio-waste she would try to bury it in garden (shallow hole with minimal soil over). For some reason she does not like compost pile... Some of potato started growing and unless it was making a problem to plants in near proximity, I would leave it. Original tubers were bought in different grocery shops over few months and I know nothing about type/cultivars.
At the end of season I did not dig out tubers because my soil is full of rocks. For 4-5 years that I have the property, I could not push my spade even once all the way into ground. For that reason, I don't grow tubers and I just ignored these potato plants, considering them bio-fertilizer and organic material for this year grow out season.
I assumed that Estonian winter will kill them but this year there are few potato plants growing again.
I live in Estonia, USDA zone 6, long, cold and wet winter with plenty night temperatures of -17C this year. Growing season is short. Average annual temperature is +4C. Think of Alaska zone 6 for comparison. Frost line is 35-40 cm bellow ground level (ice on my pond was 36 cm this year). I assumed that potato is not freeze tolerant and that it shouldn't survive these kind of conditions, but I was proved wrong this year.
Did anyone else have similar cases of potato surviving in-ground cold winters? Care to share experience?
Not that we need potato to stay in ground over winter but I'm starting to contemplate over idea to try and pass the genetics through seeds few time to see if there is going to be an increase in adaptation to frost and local conditions.
Best, Srdjan
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Post by imgrimmer on Jun 12, 2018 2:34:26 GMT -5
I have some potatoes which survive since some years. It is one wild (?) species I can`t remember the name. And various seedlings I made some years ago.
Climate here is not cold as yours, we had -12°C this winter. Ground was frozen but I can`t tell how deep.
This spring I found one tuber right under the ground surface still vivid. At least this one must have experienced freeze.
I am still thinking about how to grow ptoatoes as perennials and avoid weeds.
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Post by Srdjan Gavrilovic on Jun 12, 2018 3:58:23 GMT -5
I have some potatoes which survive since some years. It is one wild (?) species I can`t remember the name. And various seedlings I made some years ago. Climate here is not cold as yours, we had -12°C this winter. Ground was frozen but I can`t tell how deep. This spring I found one tuber right under the ground surface still vivid. At least this one must have experienced freeze. I am still thinking about how to grow ptoatoes as perennials and avoid weeds. Do you have any record on what kind of seedlings were those (what did you cross) and what specie/species you have? Is it possible to go through and find out? |
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Post by philagardener on Jun 12, 2018 5:34:34 GMT -5
I have been letting potatoes overwinter here on the East Coast (US) for years after observing volunteers make it through. Fingerlings seem the hardiest, which doesn't surprise me; at the moment my most reliable overwintering variety is "Tom Thumb". It is amazing (to me) how early these pop up in the Spring. Having made it through the winter, our cold, wet weather this year and my clay soil have been more challenging for this crop. Solanum commersonii is said to be hardy to -12F and is being explored as a source of frost resistance genes. Here's an interesting (open-access) article from a group in Italy that is working to understand the genome of this plant - www.plantcell.org/content/27/4/954 |
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Post by billw on Jun 12, 2018 12:16:56 GMT -5
As long as the colder conditions come on gradually, the tubers will covert starch to sugar and can become very tolerant of freezing conditions. It isn't unusual for potatoes to survive zone 6 winters, particularly if the temperature warms considerably during the day or if there is snow cover.
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 12, 2018 13:46:27 GMT -5
Yes. My winters are similar to philagardener's, though I have sandy soil. I often have volunteers make it through the winter. But it's unreliable, whereas potatoes in a sack in a decently protected shed/garage/unheated room are very reliable. So I dig them each fall. (I also have insect-borne disease problems, but that's a different issue.) I feel you on the rocks, though. It's amazing how they just appear. Sometimes ones big enough to be termed boulders somehow magically materialize in well-tilled ground. If my soil grew potatoes the way it grows rocks, food security would be no issue at all... |
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Post by imgrimmer on Jun 12, 2018 15:01:29 GMT -5
I have some potatoes which survive since some years. It is one wild (?) species I can`t remember the name. And various seedlings I made some years ago. Climate here is not cold as yours, we had -12°C this winter. Ground was frozen but I can`t tell how deep. This spring I found one tuber right under the ground surface still vivid. At least this one must have experienced freeze. I am still thinking about how to grow ptoatoes as perennials and avoid weeds. Do you have any record on what kind of seedlings were those (what did you cross) and what specie/species you have? Is it possible to go through and find out? No I don`t have records. I lost the label on the wild potato. The seedlings are from different varieties I collected in my garden.
Potatoes are not my main interest. I just collected seeds as I collect everything  I can`t help you with that but I can send you potatoes if you are interested. |
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Post by nathanp on Jun 12, 2018 21:04:58 GMT -5
I have a friend in zone 3 Vermont who has had tubers survive over the winter in the ground. I am in zone 6b/7a coastal New England, and I find this is a trait I do not want in my tubers. I'd rather not have to dig out potato weeds every spring that provide food for Colorado Potato Beetles.
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Post by philagardener on Jun 13, 2018 5:15:25 GMT -5
That's a fair alternative take on it. I am concerned as well that persistent material may overwinter blight, but this also may be true of some of the wild, weedy nightshades.
It is intriguing to me, however, that the cold sensitivity of the tubers seems to have been mis-characterized, as least as they sit in the garden.
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Post by nathanp on Jun 13, 2018 5:38:33 GMT -5
The disease overwintering concern really should always be a concern. That's another reason I don't want my potatoes overwintering. And another reason why rotating potato crops is a good idea.
What is a potentially more useful trait to me, is vine frost resistance. Having vines on the plants that can stand up to 27F would mean being able to extend out the growing season further in both directions if needed. Or being able to tolerate frosts coming at unforeseen times. That is a different set of genes than tuber frost resistance, and is not well documented. I have one potato line that I know the mother plant has. It is a long season potato that a few years ago had vines growing almost to December in my climate. It took a hard frost in the mid 20's F to kill the vines.
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Post by reed on Jun 13, 2018 7:14:06 GMT -5
It isn't at all uncommon here for potatoes that were missed at harvest to overwinter and grow the next spring however the few times I tried to plant potatoes in the fall it didn't work. None came up the next spring.
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Post by imgrimmer on Jun 13, 2018 15:18:39 GMT -5
What is a potentially more useful trait to me, is vine frost resistance. My "feral" potatoes withstand a light radiation frost this spring. A friend told me his potato vines died in the same night. |
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Post by ferdzy on Jun 13, 2018 21:30:49 GMT -5
We are in CDN Zone 5 (US Zone 4?) and missed potatoes are actually getting to be really annoying weeds. Disease does not seem to be an issue, so much as they provide a launching pad for Colorado potato bugs to attack the main crop.
We have tried planting potatoes in the fall a few times and have generally had 80% to 90% show up in the spring. Usually we could then harvest them 2 to 3 weeks earlier than spring planted potatoes, but some of them are still not ready until the usual time.
Our soil is very well drained which I suspect contributes to their ability to survive and reappear each spring.
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Post by Srdjan Gavrilovic on Jun 14, 2018 1:59:52 GMT -5
I was very surprised by the discovery. I had a strong belief that potato tubers have no chance to survive winter. I guess, learning every day... Now, I stand corrected.
I don't see any advantage of potato overwintering but it does tickles my mind to play with it a bit more. However, I'll try to source some of diploid species to work with.
Anyone having seeds of diploid potato species to share?
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Post by jocelyn on Jun 14, 2018 15:16:14 GMT -5
No diploid seeds, but I could save you tetraploid seeds this fall. I bet some other folks here could save you seeds also.
I often have tubers overwinter. I'm on the east coast of Canada, and can be at minus 25 over winter,
but there can be quite abit of snow by that time. Seeds that the wildlife steals and then drops will often come up in strange places.
Sometimes I pop them up and move them to a better place.
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