Orange Flint Corn - SESE

[reed]

There is no purple at all in the kernels on my corn, it's only in the stalks and husks. I'm pretty sure purple, blue and lots of other colors in the kernels are in the aleurone and I am trying to be careful not to let that in to begin with so I don't have to select it back out but I love the look of the pruple plants.

Do you know if they ordinarily used the corn itself for dye or the plants? I made some from the husks of Zap Chico and dyed an old tee shirt but it washed out to a faint pink. Probably some technique I don't know about to set it in more permanent. All I did was soak the husks in hot water.

[blueadzuki]

link to how to dye with purple corn.

This might be something for me to look into as I still have a tiny amount of kernels of a bright magenta corn I found once. 

[12540dumont]

Well, the folks in Peru use the corn. Simmered for a long time. Mordant your fabric if you want it to stay dyed and light fast. Aluminum Acetate for bast, Alum for protein.

I haven't dyed with corn. I guess I would start with 50% WOF for the corn.
Scour your fabric (orvus for protein, Syntrapol & soda ash for bast fiber.)
I would probably Tannin next if I was using a bast fiber. 24 hour soak
Then mordant. Rinse.
Then dye. Don't be afraid to let your item sit in the dye bath overnight.
Then dry. Then rinse. Don't WASH for a couple of weeks.

Then show pictures.

I usually dye with madder/woad/indigo type plants....because I can't eat them.
Of course, every time I'm soaking a batch of black beans, I get the itch to try dyeing with the. But then I eat them.

[blueadzuki]

Had the same thing happen the time we wound up making "Black Death Paella" (paella using black "forbidden" rice). Turned white enamel pots permanently purple.

Thought has occurred to me with black soybeans as well (though the water on those tends to be more brownish than true purple).

Also should point out the Peruvians are presumably using Maiz Morazo (the same purple corn they use for Chicha morado) which is VERY dark purple of pericarp. Don't know how the Zapalote measures up.

[kyredneck]

Apr 12, 2020 14:31:14 GMT -5 DarJones said:

I'm more in favor of a hard dent corn as compared to a true flint. Flint corn makes the best grits, but for cornbread, I'll take the dent. If making tortillas, a softer dent or flour corn is best.

Thanks for taking the time to comment Daryl. To be honest I don't think I've ever eaten cornbread made from flint. I've some 'Guinea Flint' meal on order just to see (should've done that before ordering the seed, right?). I'm particularly interested to see if it will make good 'hot water cornbread' which is what we've gravitated to lately. I've eaten grits from the 'Guinea Flint' and it was good, but not good enough to rule out dent grits.

Incidentally I also have a lb of 'Looney Corn' from SESE :

"(white) [Early 1900s SE TN variety selected by C. S. Looney of Winchester, TN.] Rare old Southern white dent famous for its great flavor, and a favorite of moonshiners. Sturdy, medium-tall stalks, does well even in poor soil. 9-12 in. ears are densely packed with good-sized seeds, 16-18 rows, good husk coverage, 1-2 ears/stalk. Small packet (42 g) has about 108 seeds."

Know anything about it?

What's your staple dent for meal and grits? Weren't you working on developing a higher protein corn at one time? For man and chickens?  

[kyredneck]

Apr 12, 2020 13:53:59 GMT -5 grano said:

ky,
I think you will be happier with flint for grits. With very little floury endosperm, the grits will cook more evenly. The same corn, with a finer granulation, will make johnnycake. For cornbread, you can use anything, depending on preference. I prefer the floury for a cakey bread and pancakes.

Ideally, one would only plant flint and flour maize, each for different food needs. Dent has two advantages: yield and dual-use from one plot. Fortunately, the floury endosperm breaks more finely on first break, so it can be separated with a sieve.

Recommend Deppe's The Resiliant Gardener for a discussion of maize types and uses. However, she doesn't really consider dent. Neither does she consider milling popcorn. Another good resource is Boutard's Beautiful Corn.

Thanks for commenting grano. I haven't ruled out growing a dent this year and putting the flint seed in the freezer for later. I have 'The Resilient Gardener', it's what perked my interest in flint corn and planting her seed in 2015. But, it blew over. 

[blueadzuki]

If you are willing to look around, there is also what I refer to as "shell" corn; corn that is nearly all soft starch but with a "shell" of hard starch surrounding it all the way round (this differentiates it from dent as in dent there is a break in the hard starch layers at the top of the kernel, which is what makes the dent).

I tend to think that shell corns might have the advantage in a high moisture or high pest area. Hard starch is more difficult for pests to get into (not impossible by any means, but more difficult). so the kernels are a little more protected. And it will mill as easily as dent (easier probably as there is more soft)

A lot of Southwestern corns are also what is called "flour/flint" where the kernels can be floury, flinty or anywhere in between on the same cob. I imagine these corns HAVE to be sifted as each kernel presumably mills differently.

[DarJones]

I'm still working on the cross of Cherokee Squaw X high protein from ARS-Grin. This year should be the largest crop yet. I ordered some of the Nalo Orange and am thinking hard about crossing it one way with the Cherokee Squaw selection. The intent would be to increase carotene content into a productive high protein corn.

I don't know anything about Looney's other than what is on the SESE page. I have a couple of white dent corns that are selected for drought tolerance and good eating quality as corn meal so not really interested in growing anything else.

[reed]

I'm glad I quit worrying over trying to find the right corn for the right purpose. I'm having much better luck just gathering up as much as I can and letting the soil and weather pick out what works. Nothing else matters if it doesn't grow and produce good for me. Once that's settled I'll figure out what to do with it and how to selectively push it toward the traits I want most.

[DarJones]

I received a pack of Nalo Orange corn yesterday. Seed are small, about double the size of a popcorn grain. The orange color is fairly bright.

[massachusettsgrower]

There is a corporation that produces a hybrid corn seed named Suntava.
www.suntavapurplecorn.com
it is purple and generates so much color that the corporation is using it to make a natural purple color to compete with synthetic purple colors already on the market. For now, Burpee has the exclusive on retail sales of Suntava
www.burpee.com/vegetables/corn/corn-full-season-suntava-purple-hybrid-prod022802.html
here is a purple corn that will succeed even in the north.

I will be growing it in 2020, for the first time. I was persuaded by reading user reviews on the page there. Believe me, I had doubts about south american blue or purple corn, because I had actually grown the purple corn Maiz Marado used in Peru they use there to make a non-alcoholic drink Chicha Morada, and recognized on my grow-out that corn is not adapted to my type (Massachusetts) climate. Also the corn it yielded appeared to be useless to any of the ways I used corn. But I was persuaded by the user experiences the corporation that produces Suntava had derived the right hybrid to make it useful and adapted it well to our temperate climate.

I'm suggesting this because the corporation has produced and through Burpee is making accessible a corn that according to reviews really works and where the breeding problems have been already solved, making this one corn that can actually perform without further tinkering.

Suntava is one of three corns I will be growing in 2020, all three separated from each other.

Sow outdoors 4 weeks after the average last frost date and harvest in 120 days
Plant Height is 72". plant spread is 24". yields 8" ears
Annual for all growing zones from 4-11. Sunlight exposure = full-sun

[reed]

I grew Suntava and wasn't at all impressed. No complaints on how well it grew but it did not come out looking like the pictures. Kernels were two toned, some more a dark grey, none of it looked like the pictures. I didn't bother dissecting any kernels to see where the color difference originated. Over all though it seemed to me another example where the marketing is better than the product.

Again it did grow and produce pretty well, might be useful in a breeding project. Just didn't fit my goals.

[massachusettsgrower]

Thanks for your experience with Suntava, definitely useful. Another corn that I find interesting is this:
www.reimerseeds.com/ruby-queen-corn-x.aspx
75 days. Zea mays. (F1) The plant produces good yields of 8" long ears of red corn. Yes, it's really red! This is an extra sweet, tender variety that is very flavorful! The ears have 16 to 18 rows of kernels. Best when picked when it blushes red for maximum sweetness. Or you can let it ripen to full red so it can develop its rich, old fashioned flavor. There is no need to isolate from other corns, but we suggest that you grow another SE variety to help with pollination. An added bonus the red tassels and stalks make fantastic autumn decorations. A variety from the USA

My main interest would be if the dried kernels might be of useful for cornmeal. Shrinking in many sweet corn varieties reduces kernel size.

[reed]

I'v also grown Ruby Queen. I don't know if it's true or not that you should grow a different one along side but I did. I don't remember it being quite as colorful as in the pictures. I grew it with a white corn, if I remember right it was Silver Choice. Both were fine for modern sweet corns and both grew well for me.

This is just speculation based on what I've heard from others, I haven't tried it myself but I don't think any SE corn would be good for grinding, SE kernels are very shrunken. If I was gonna try grinding sweet corn I'd stick with su.

[DarJones]

Ruby Queen is a red pericarp overlaid on yellow sweet corn. It is not as refined as some of the better se varieties like Silver King. IMO, grinding sweet corn is a waste of time. Get a really good old fashioned flour or soft dent variety if you want good cornmeal.