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Post by PatrickW on Dec 19, 2009 15:15:42 GMT -5
as far as the months to plant in, as patrick said, there's a lot of info by tim on past posts in this thread. he said both the perennial wheat and perennial rye can be started in cells or in the ground. they need to be planted in July or August. I think this is probably true of the wheat, but I'm not so sure about the rye. I can't remember if Tim said it here, or in a private email (and I don't have time to hunt it down now), but I remember him saying that with the rye it only had to be warm enough for it to sprout -- and I guess for the ground to be dug. He said July and August were fine months to plant it out, but in mild climate areas it was even possible to plant it year round. I still haven't planted his rye, and so I'm now planning to do it early spring. |
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Post by silverseeds on Dec 19, 2009 17:20:55 GMT -5
Yes I do bunkie  thanks for remembering.... As for the rye, I got mine rather late this year, I planted some outside, and some inside, in a 5 gallon bucket. Tim thought it would still be okay, but Im not sure he realized how cool my nights already were. We had frosts days after I planted it, it hadnt even srpouted yet. despite that the stuff outside is doing better actually, even though the stuff inside I thought Id let get bigger before I put it out.... Both are pretty short so far. As for how hardy the wheat is, I think its likely as hardy as any winter wheat, but rye is much more cool tolerant.... My understanding both are still being stabilized to some degree, so they will likely localize to our individual areas somewhat.... |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Dec 20, 2009 9:27:19 GMT -5
WHAT is the time of year to plant:
1. Wheat
2. Rye
3. Sorghum
I'm speaking of Tim's grains here. I keep meaning to ask and keep forgetting...
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Post by canadamike on Dec 20, 2009 10:19:34 GMT -5
Perennial grains are perennial, it means that in nature, as long as conditions are ok, seeds will sprout, In nature, they sprout when the time comes, they will wait for water if there is a drought, cold weather etc...
To get THE FASTEST BUT MOST DEMANDING RESULTS IN TERMS OF WORK, seed them inside in spring first, transplant them later, then when they make seeds keep all the seeds in separate bags with good notes, and come back to the plants that will regenerate from the crown. Go back to your notes, these seeds are from perennial plants and carrry the good genes. Most, but not all, will be perennial, perennial grasses, like in your lawn, always throw out a percentage of annual seeds, it is a survival mechanism.
Otherwise, plant later in July, don't bother, those around next year are perennial.
As simple as that..
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Post by PatrickW on Dec 20, 2009 10:50:19 GMT -5
WHAT is the time of year to plant: 1. Wheat 2. Rye 3. Sorghum I'm speaking of Tim's grains here. I keep meaning to ask and keep forgetting... I think Mike is right in that perennial means any time, but if you want to optimize things and get as strong a start as possible, I would think along these lines: Wheat: A month or two before winter starts to set in in your area. In most places July/August is optimal. Rye: Probably best either grown through the summer or grown through the winter, but as long as the seeds can sprout and you can transplant them, it's probably okay. Sorghum: This plant is related to corn, and is heat loving. I would try to get it as established as possible by setting it out early spring, and start it indoors a month before setting it out. |
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Post by bunkie on Dec 20, 2009 11:06:47 GMT -5
i went back and reread tim's post, on page 1 of this thread, about planting the perennial grains, rye and wheat, that i was growing. he said of the two..."these grains are bred to be late summer early fall sown for July Aug. harvest (dry in field).
from my experience of starting them in cells/flats in early spring, the perennial wheat did produce seed, but not the perennial rye. tim explains why on that same post i mentioned above.
tim also responded to the question of 'is the perennial wheat a hard or soft wheat' here...
"it is a gene pool of many selections of perennial wheat crosses/progeny that threshed cleaner year / fall 2003. It is not a variety it is a mass selected for that one tendency and has variations apart from that,
Tim"
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Post by mnjrutherford on Dec 20, 2009 12:03:20 GMT -5
Awesome. That gives me a lot to ponder and plan with. Thanks much. I think you may have planted a few more questions in my mind, but I need to allow this data to simmer and rise.
As for the hard/soft issue, I might be able to answer that question in a couple of years. That data is, I presume required for culinary purposes? If yes, I'll be using my grains for baking so I can describe the results of my labors. Can use the first round of grain harvest for that very purpose if I understand it correctly.
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Post by PatrickW on Dec 20, 2009 14:25:32 GMT -5
Thanks Bunkie!
Between now and spring, I'll check this out with Tim to be sure, and let you all know what I find out. If anyone asks him before, please let me know...
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Post by bunkie on Dec 21, 2009 14:34:36 GMT -5
yes jo, i am talking about using it for cooking. i have not really had a decent quantity to try it yet.
i just received an email from David at Peters Seed & Research with his thoughts on the hard
or soft wheat question...
".......I don't know an absolute answer to your question as Tim is the grain expert and he is no longer with Peters Seed, but my impression of the matter would be to guess that it would be classified as a hard wheat. The kernels appear to me to be a hard type and some other types of wheat such as the lighter colored wheats seem to have a softer kernel. I have not ground any of these wheats to know from first hand experience, but it is just an "educated guess" as previously mentioned...."
i have to agree with him on the appearance of this Ezeer Perennial Wheat. it does look a lot like the regular Hard Wheat berries i've received from other sources.
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Post by canadamike on Dec 21, 2009 15:16:39 GMT -5
I usually chew a few kernels to know...
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Post by bunkie on Feb 14, 2010 19:48:26 GMT -5
really michel???! ;D i thought this was a very interesting article and the video, which there's a link on this link, was great. his idea of using perennials runs along my thinking. i like the way they're going about it too... From Annuals to Perennialswww.permacultureusa.org/2009/12/19/from-annuals-to-perennials/#more-1553Permaculture is all about mimicking natural systems – patterning our agriculture and other critical human needs on the symbiotic processes we observe all around us. If you compare nature’s methods we see that stable natural plant systems are polycultures, and perennial, whereas our modern industrial agriculture is the exact opposite – largely being monocultures and annuals.
But, imagine if the annual crops we rely on the most, grains and pulses, could be made to grow perennially instead. No end/beginning of year ploughing, no annual replanting, etc. It would save enormous amounts of time and energy on cultivation and planting, and allow soils to remain undisturbed for longer, with immense benefits to soil life, structure, organic matter and carbon content.
The video below highlights this out-of-the-box permaculture thinking. The Land Institute in Kansas has been working solidly on engineering annuals into perennials (by way of natural plant breeding – not by gene gun). They take ancient wild, perennial varieties of grains, and cross them with their modern annual counterparts, and repeat, and repeat, until they end up with a harvestable product from a plant that doesn’t have to be resown every year. Or at least that’s the aim. This is still a work in progress, but their purpose is "to develop an agricultural system with the ecological stability of the prairie and a grain yield comparable to that from annual crops".
The implications/benefits of this are hard to exaggerate – both in terms of energy/time expenditure for farmers, but also in terms of the health/structure of soil that doesn’t have to be cultivated nearly so often and the potential biodiversity (stability) that could be achieved with mixes of these polycultures.
With populations growing, the gap between nature’s way, and ‘our’ way, needs closing. We must find ways to eat that don’t undermine the very resources of soil, water and air that that eating depends on. This is the kind of ‘genetic engineering’ that I can endorse, and is the kind of research for the public good that should be aided by all governments that give a hoot about the future. |
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Post by cortona on Feb 19, 2010 7:16:12 GMT -5
Dear all
being new of this forum i'm readyng everithing realy avidly!
this tread are realy interessant and if anibody have some surplus seeds of some of this perennial variety i'm interested on work on something, i live in mild /hot climate(central italy) and rice with is water demand is somehing i can afford probably but something other of edible can be realy interessant i grow sorgum and every tipe of weath and other are growed around here
thanks for your patience
Emanuele
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Post by bunkie on Feb 24, 2010 12:02:18 GMT -5
...... if anibody have some surplus seeds of some of this perennial variety i'm interested .... emanuele, PM me your address. i have some perennial rye and wheat seeds. |
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Post by bunkie on Sept 23, 2010 10:44:39 GMT -5
Ancient seeds in Mexico help fight warming effectswww.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68G30I20100917More than 500 years after Spanish priests brought wheat seeds to Mexico to make wafers for the Catholic Mass, those seeds may bring a new kind of salvation to farmers hit by global warming.
Scientists working in the farming hills outside Mexico City found the ancient wheat varieties have particular drought- and heat-resistant traits, like longer roots that suck up water and a capacity to store more nutrients in their stalks......
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Post by MikeH on Jul 26, 2011 6:50:12 GMT -5
How have folks made out growing these grains? Does anyone have wheat and/or rye seeds to share?
Thanks & regards,
Mike
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thanks for remembering.... 
