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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 4, 2009 8:06:23 GMT -5
OK Dave, sounds like I'm hired so here is the "Office Gal" kicking in.
Article Writers - I'd like your proposed title by July 24th. Send it to my email address or to the PM here. Either way I'll get it. Make sure that I have the correct spelling of your proper name or pseudonym. Don't bother doing formatting, it will have to be done from scratch once I have it in Word. Also, send photo files or links to photo files separately. They will also have to be inserted after they are in the program.
Seed Envelopes - Dave, make these standard with plenty of info. I'll mock up a template and post it for thoughts and opinions as to formatting. Folks, what are your pet peeves about this? Mine are:
1. Not enough data
2. Different formats envelope to envelope so you can never be sure where to look for something.
3. Seldom do you have "ALL" the facts like germination AND maturity.
The idea here should be to make envelopes better than everyone else.
Seed Packaging - I suggest that you use weight for determining seed quantity. Putting together a hundred packets of 35 seed means a LOT of time if you have to count each one out. On the other hand, with a small digital scale you should be able to weigh seed out to grams very easily and quickly. You will need to determine what weight per seed size though. Example: corn, peas, beans - 1/2 oz; brassica, tomato, peppers - 1/4 oz. Don't stick to those numbers cause I have no clue what seed weighs. But, if you know that a seed falls into a weight category, extra large, large, medium, small, extra small, then you assign a weight to the category. The volume to weight will also tell you if you need special packaging. Bakers Creek puts their tiny seed in a zip lock about 1" x 2" then in a standard envelope. I like that because I'm not loosing the tiny seed in the seams of the envelope. Then, if I purchase bulk like the Hamburg Parsley, the seed is in the standard envelope then put into a plastic zip lock that is slightly larger. That way, if the paper envelope bursts, my seed are still contained. They don't do that with ALL the seed, just some and that is great in my opinion.
Seed Quantity - I think you should offer "Trial Packs". For folks who are interested in trying just a few seed of numerous varieties. Trial packs would be more expensive per pound of seed, BUT, if I could get 10 seed for say $1 to $1.50 rather than 50 to 100 seed for $2 to $300, then I, as customer, have the choice of trialing several varieties of MY choice (I don't go for the seller's bundles at all) OR purchasing the "regular" size.
SUGGESTION - Can we have a group meeting using Skype or some other internet program? I know we have some folks on dial-up so that is probably out of the question for them, however, by providing both agenda for dial ups to look over and provide input prior to the meeting then minutes to comment on following the meeting, we should be able to get fair information coverage to all.
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Post by americangardener on Jul 4, 2009 9:27:09 GMT -5
Reimbursed for labors - not likely (unless of course you become an overnight success and a multimillionaire or something) Once you get going perhaps for our expenses. After all you are very generous to us too. One idea for your packets - simple, eyecatching design in black and white. (cheaper to print but can be just as catchy as the multicolored store bought packets, and you can send a preprinted template of your logo and the type of seeds, such as "Peas". The packager can then insert the varietal name beneath and perhaps the germination rate and date tested on the packet when they print them up on standard printing stock. Standard sized envelopes for appropriate seeds. (corn and beans will have to be bigger than say tomatoes) but keep the same logo. Have you an idea of what you want to call your company yet? Starting out as a beginning gardener (long, long ago - may I suggest enough seed to plant a 8-10 foot row. Tomato seeds probably should come in the 10-15 seed range. Corn and beans probably around 30-40. Just ideas that have been kicking around since you first started talking about this company of yours. And Dave, you might be surprised how many of us gardeners understand your "madness". We go through it every year ourselves. Maybe not quite as your vision but I have yet to meet a real "gardener" who doesn't kind of bite off a lot more than he can chew comfortably, and that includes us. <grin> Well you know i could never re-imburse anyone for the time and labor it actually takes to produce the seeds. We all spend numerous hours tending our plants that if you would put a dollar amount on the time we'd be making something like prison wages. Probably pennies per hour if you really stop to think bout it. But, i do want everyone who is part of the company.. or everyone who's a supplier or everyone who is just involved with the administration as a constultant to make something for their time. The way i figured the first year's projected profit i included paying a fair market price for all the seeds the voulenteers who are helping send in. That is of course gonna be a major expense if i have to go out to other commercial sources to acquire them. So, why not spend it on seeds from people i care about? I want to be fair.. but then again i don't want to be going overboard and spending alot on common varieties i can pick up by the pound really cheap either. It will be cheaper to purchase bulk quantites from some places to resell. I know my projections are basically guesses.. but if i can make a profit the first year and get everyone re-imbursed for their time, then i'll be happy. I think a conservative estimate of what i could make for a profit the first year was something like $24,000 after paying something like $15,000 in supplies and seeds and other expenses. So, that may not be a millionaire.. but it would be enough to get the company set up for the next season, give enough working capital to improve the website and do more marketing, and get a better inventory of the supplies instead of just paying as we go.. I'm hoping it will snowball from year one. Now, i know i can do it.. i have done businesses before.. but i can't do it alone. And i can't ask everyone to voulenteer their time for no re-imbursement. I've done the voulenteers before and people will burn out really fast when they find out how much work they end up doing for free. I know i did... i put in ten years of my life getting that last non-profit going and i didn't make a penny for it. And those were many, many, many 24 hour days of my time. I'm trying to think ahead here and i'm hoping the way i set it up will retain my helpers for longer. It'll be sort of a hybrid between voulenteer labor and paid labor. But we'll see how that all turns out.. it's all an experiment for me.. some things may work.. some may not... i'll fine tune what does work as the company gets set. Anyways.. i want to do what's fair for everyone.. Dave |
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Post by grunt on Jul 5, 2009 0:06:09 GMT -5
Dave: I think you will find that a lot of your volunteers from here will be quite happy to "take it out in trade", and consider themselves well recompensed. I know we would. And that's not even considering the taxation problems that might arise internationally. I can't speak for anyone other than ourselves, but we're doing it because it's FUN. And good Karma to try and give some one a boost when they're trying to get up.
Like it says in my signature at the bottom of every post, "Always pay it forward." That's all we are doing.
And "Best of luck."
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Post by canadamike on Jul 5, 2009 0:42:58 GMT -5
I feel sure to find good things to grow for you in my trials, and have high hopes for some melons and sweet corns, tomatoes and probably eggplants, especially next year in their case, when I will trial a lot of very early cultivars. I have 2 this year, so far so good.... Grunt, there is a frenchie that would like the ''Pay it forward'' sentence explained  |
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Post by grungy on Jul 5, 2009 1:51:58 GMT -5
Michel, pay it forward, means that if I do something for you, I expect no personal reimbursement for an act of kindness. If you feel obligated to do something then please do it for the next person who needs help.
There was a movie (unfortunately) which I believe was only in English, about a school teacher who assigned his class the project of each one figuring out one thing they thought that they could do that would improve the world. One of his male students (if memory serves me correctly in grade 6) thought that if every day each person would do a kind act for someone else and instead of taking any personal payment for themselves, the obligation would be the receiver of the act of kindness would do 3 acts of kindness to others, and ask them also to explain and pay it forward.
Provided that everyone started doing this, how soon would this world be a better place?
We liked the idea and it has become our motto and outlook on life. Well, actually the idea was just the way we were raised, but it gave a quote that we could use.
So we hope everyone will "Pay It Forward".
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 4:30:39 GMT -5
Michel, pay it forward, means that if I do something for you, I expect no personal reimbursement for an act of kindness. If you feel obligated to do something then please do it for the next person who needs help. There was a movie (unfortunately) which I believe was only in English, about a school teacher who assigned his class the project of each one figuring out one thing they thought that they could do that would improve the world. One of his male students (if memory serves me correctly in grade 6) thought that if every day each person would do a kind act for someone else and instead of taking any personal payment for themselves, the obligation would be the receiver of the act of kindness would do 3 acts of kindness to others, and ask them also to explain and pay it forward. Provided that everyone started doing this, how soon would this world be a better place? We liked the idea and it has become our motto and outlook on life. Well, actually the idea was just the way we were raised, but it gave a quote that we could use. So we hope everyone will "Pay It Forward". Ditto.. my sentiments too. I loved the movie to.. it was with kevin spacek and that kid i can't remember his name.. same kid as was in the movie 6th sense. Anyways.. great philosophy. |
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 4:44:49 GMT -5
Dave: I think you will find that a lot of your volunteers from here will be quite happy to "take it out in trade", and consider themselves well recompensed. I know we would. And that's not even considering the taxation problems that might arise internationally. I can't speak for anyone other than ourselves, but we're doing it because it's FUN. And good Karma to try and give some one a boost when they're trying to get up. Like it says in my signature at the bottom of every post, "Always pay it forward." That's all we are doing. And "Best of luck." That's my hope too Dan.. i'm hoping i can get some people to trade larger quantities of seeds.. say enough for a hundred packets at least. And in exchange either take their pick of the seeds i have for trade or take a credit for the seeds i have for sale. Not all the seeds i have to sell i'll be able to trade. There will be many that i have to trade that i won't have for sale. Mostly the ones from my private collection where i might only have a hundred or less seeds of. Then there are people who are growing as much as ten acres of one variety of melons this year who are expecting me to take what i can off their hands. I expect i'll be using alot of melon seeds for trading with next year. Some things that i have pounds of seed for veggies like tomatoes and peppers i'll be using for trades. Stuff like that. Least i'm hoping i can continue trading.. that's only way i know to keep expanding my offerings. I want to make some kind of notice on the website too.. something perhaps like what J.L. Hudson has for his. Where people send in their seeds and receive just credit for the ones that are listed for sale. That will save me an enormous amount of time with the trading. But, at any rate.. i want something where i can either sell or trade large quantities of seeds in bulk too. I have no idea how long it'd take to sell ten acres worth of melon seeds by the small packets. I'll have to start something to attract market gardeners to the site too i guess. Now as for taxes on any payments.. well you know there's ways around that.. cash still works.. no records of cash. And with no records.. then no taxes. Taxes will come into play much more with the payments of profits and that kind of stuff.. as for reimbursement to growers who want some cash.. well there's ways to do that. I usually do business with a handshake.. not often do i use contracts and agreements unless it's a big project or something. So no paper trail there either. Taxes shouldn't be a problem. |
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 4:53:49 GMT -5
I feel sure to find good things to grow for you in my trials, and have high hopes for some melons and sweet corns, tomatoes and probably eggplants, especially next year in their case, when I will trial a lot of very early cultivars. I have 2 this year, so far so good.... Grunt, there is a frenchie that would like the ''Pay it forward'' sentence explained Thanks Mike.. You know i'll use anything you got. I should be set for tomatoes.. but i can always use new ones there too.. just you know what i mean.. i think i have a good selection i can offer already. What i'm really gonna be needing are the eggplants, peppers, okras, that kind of stuff. So, anyone else reading.. how's your eggplants doing? Anything you want to consider for selling.. you know i need some pictures and a good write up about em. That's gonna be needed in order for me to list em. If they're possibly crossed or anything like that.. let me know too. I'll put that on the site so that everyone knows there's no guarantees as to purity of type. I think i'm gonna need a disclaimer of some sort on the site as is.. it's not like i'm gonna be able to make promises when some of the seeds i'm gonna be offering are crosses i made myself. No promises what they'll get. All i can do is tell them what the parent plants were like. Anyways.. you know the planned start up of the business is Oct 31st.. so any time you can get the info ready for just the ones you think you'll be saving seed from.. well, the sooner you get it in the sooner it can get listed. |
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 12:09:45 GMT -5
Ok... i'm bored.. too hot to run back to the garden and string more fences.. i have to sytch down the weeds in order to make a path to run the fencing.. Not something i feel like doing today.. so i figured i'd bug everyone else who is hard at work.
First off Jo.. i was thinking about featuring one vegetable each season in the newsletter. Perhaps something like black cherry for the summer.. squash for the fall that kind of stuff. Basically anything i've got tons of. What'd ya think bout doing something bout that as a feature or whatever? I know nothing bout newsletters.. cept that i always had someone else do em. I actually used to have a whole committee of voulenteers for fundraising that were at my beck and call.. but i digress again. I know i like the idea.. what do you think? Think it'd be doable? I could maybe write up a description from my notes and perhaps Dan or someone will help fine tune the descriptions or article or whatever it turns out to be. I know BC is old news now.. but there still may be some interest in it for those who are new to seedsaving. And i don't know if it's doable.. but could it be possible to put one of those hyperlink thingys in the newsletter that goes to the website at the page for that feature? Anyone know bout that stuff? Just a thought though.. if it's a bad one let me know.
Dave
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 5, 2009 16:58:43 GMT -5
Excellent idea Dave! I've been pondering format and having a seed of the quarter is an outstanding notion. There should be 3 to 5 items. Heres a thought for the basic profile:
Seed Feature
Season Feature (what to do during the quarter)
Health Feature (issue, plants that address issue, how to gather and when, how to prep)
Listing of specialty items with limited availability
Question/Suggestion: Publish on the solstice and equinox as opposed to the first of Jan/Apr/Jul/Oct?
Do you realize I haven't even got a clue what the business is? Well, yea, selling seed but does it have a name? Are you collecting things to sell besides seeds? Do you have a business plan? I should read it if you have one.
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 18:49:26 GMT -5
Excellent idea Dave! I've been pondering format and having a seed of the quarter is an outstanding notion. There should be 3 to 5 items. Heres a thought for the basic profile: Seed Feature Season Feature (what to do during the quarter) Health Feature (issue, plants that address issue, how to gather and when, how to prep) Listing of specialty items with limited availability Question/Suggestion: Publish on the solstice and equinox as opposed to the first of Jan/Apr/Jul/Oct? Do you realize I haven't even got a clue what the business is? Well, yea, selling seed but does it have a name? Are you collecting things to sell besides seeds? Do you have a business plan? I should read it if you have one. Looks like you got it all figured out for the newsletter. Yeah i didn't know when to have the published times either.. i wanted something where it coincided with peoples garden schedules rather than going by a calendar per se.. Hope that makes sense... say like when eveyone is starting indoor plants. What's that somewhere around feb, march or so? Well my thought is to have the newsletter come out when most people would be thinking bout ordering their seeds for those plantings. I know it'd vary according to what zones people are in.. but just thought it'd work best if there weren't a couple months time between the newsletter and the ordering season for people. Say like have the winter edition come out at the end of Jan.. and spring one in April, summer around July.. and fall around begining of Oct. Probably not making much sense.. but i think you know what i mean.. as for the exact dates.. i never gave that much thought yet. I don't see where it has to be perfectly seperated by 3 months between each. To me it'd be more effective if it was right before the time when people are thinking of ordering their seeds. But, maybe that's just me that feels that way. Well now you don't got a clue? Let's see if i can give you a picture of what i want to do.. and maybe you can tell me what the name of the company should be. In a nutshell.. i want to make every variety of open pollinated vegetable seed available to every person in the world. Not much to that part. Course it will be next year before i can get some of the people who have offered to translate the entire website into french or spanish or whichever languages. That might be long enough for me to get the business set up to do more international sales anyways. But, eventually.. different languages... and international sales. The small stuff like tomatoes and peppers and things that are lightweight i shouldn't have too much trouble shipping overseas.. its the heavier items like beans and peas and corn i'll most likely have to only sell in the US. Those it'd just be more expensive for shipping costs than it'd be worth. Does that give you any ideas for names? I know we had some suggestions earlier this year.. Everyones' Seeds was a name that i really liked. Since then i've had this new name i'm kinda stuck on. What about "Unique Seedbank"? I can give reasons why i like it. And i think it'd be easier to write up promotions with that name. Something like Unique Seedbank.. a collection of private/public seed collections now available to the general public. I dunno.. something along those lines. I still need more imput from people before i settle on a name i guess. And yeah.. i want to sell seedsaving supplies and books.. stuff like that too. Say something like organza bags, coin envelopes, tulle or some kind of netting for isolation cages.. even had an idea for a whole plant sized organza bag that you could put over say something like a 3 ft tall plant and then pull the drawstings to keep bugs out. Still need someone to make one first though. And then maybe worm castings or some supplies for people who raise worms or bees or that kind of stuff.. hey i wouldn't even be opposed to selling things for other type of farm operations. But, those i'd need inventory.. and inventory costs money.. so some things i'll just have to add to the website as i can afford it. I like the products.. just it's not as easy for me to stockpile a whole warehouse full of products as it is for me to stockpile pounds of seeds. Maybe if i can work out some kind of consignment arrangements with people for products like worm castings or rabbit poo or something.. then i can get those up sooner. Just something where i wouldn't need a large supply on hand.. possibly even make some drop shipping agreements if i can get a supplier to work with me on those. Well that's all part of the future plans i guess. |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 5, 2009 20:17:32 GMT -5
Company Name: OK, how about I run a contest and if we pick a suggested name I'll send the winner a goody basket? My basket with my goodies will promote some of of the things I have and would like to use for barter so I wouldn't require monetary compensation. I can also take advantage of the opportunity to initiate a collection of names of those interested in receiving the newsletter. Newsletter: I would strongly suggest that we issue the newsletter on solstice and equinox days. I say that because for myself, my garden is planned and the majority of my seeds are purchased by January 15th. I start shopping mid-December. Now that I think about it, I do believe that SSE, Baker's Creek, and one other I can't think of at the moment, all have their catalogs out about that same time. On the other hand, I'm a zone 8 and I'm starting seeds by the last week of January. hmmmm... I wonder if it would be possible to stagger mail according to zone... hmmm... Let's sit on this issue for the moment and if anyone wants to give a say, please do so. International Sales: Now this will be interesting as you will need to deal with customs. It's possible mind you, but it does require quite a bit more knowledge about what can and can not be shipped, duty taxes, and more. The actual cost of shipping will be the least of your concerns. You might be better off working with barter rather than cash sales as you can send more to an acquaintance than you could as a business. As example, my best friends live in Germany. I can send them pretty much anything they want and vice versa. However, we can not send each other coffee. Bizarre if you ask me, but the law is quite clear and surprisingly to us at least VERY strictly adhered to. Organza: I purchase material by the bolt so perhaps I can check this out for you. I can't sew the bags as I have to spend my sewing, knitting, and crocheting time working clothes for my family. But I can price, source, and procure. Additional Products: I would like to suggest that you consider selling dried plant matter such as herbs. For example, I have basil. I have 3 different basils that I have an abundance of and I will continue to produce annually in abundance. You would have to determine how it would work. Me package and mail to you then you ship. Me ship order directly but then there would be WAY more cost to ship. Buying dried basil in the store costs between $3.50 and $6. However, I have 3 different varieties all with different qualities. Also, I will have blackberry root and leaves starting next year. In about 5 years or so I'll have truffles to sell as well. Oh yea, in the fall and winter I have shiitake mushrooms. Ok, well... my brains are officially fried at this point.  I'm gonna go watch Miss Marple and head for bed. This is gonna be great Dave!
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 21:15:23 GMT -5
I'll work out the international sales. I have ways. I've been trading all around the world for a long time. I've got contacts. I can set up some people with supplys of seed and they can distrubute within their own countries. It wouldn't be that hard to set up.
The newsletter.. timing is up to you.. just so long as the articles are topical and current i'll be happy. I really did like the idea of featureing Black Cherry.. one because i have alot of it.. and two.. i'd like some sort of tribute to the breeder. I don't have time to do the research right now.. and i'm afraid to quote anything i can't recall clearly.. but i know there are alot of places to find info on Vince Sapp the breeder. I'd like something like that.. a feature telling about the breeder and how he created the BC and that kind of stuff. Don't know if it interests anyone else.. but i like that stuff more than reading about some family heirlooms. Maybe it's just me though..
Dan.. since you haven't been scared away yet. I have an idea i wanted to run by you. I'm starting to get alot of seed i won't be using. Extras if you will.. anyways.. i was thinking since you have that seedbank already set up if i couldn't just send you a small sampling for some of these things. You can take care of em any way you want.. propagate em.. sell em.. whatever. Just keep me a small sample for long term. It's up to you if you want to though.
And Jo.. anything you want listed on the website.. you know how to do it.. Make up your descriptions and i'll see if i can't sell it. If i can.. of course we can make arrangements for compensation later. I'm open to any suggestions.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 5, 2009 23:35:10 GMT -5
OK Dave, sounds like I'm hired so here is the "Office Gal" kicking in. Article Writers - I'd like your proposed title by July 24th. Send it to my email address or to the PM here. Either way I'll get it. Make sure that I have the correct spelling of your proper name or pseudonym. Don't bother doing formatting, it will have to be done from scratch once I have it in Word. Also, send photo files or links to photo files separately. They will also have to be inserted after they are in the program. Jo.. i'll let you handle all those details. Sorry i couldn't get you any help. Don't know if anyone wants to voulenteer or not.. but we could use some writers. Researchers too.. but i guess that's all part of the job isn't it? So much to do and so little time. I have to say i want two different size packet options. Those for sale.. and those for trial. There's a distinction to me.. the ones i'll have for sale will be more quantity in a packet... thus they'll cost more and need better descriptions on those. The ones i'll offer for trial may be as simple as a ziploc with a label and a dozen seeds. Reason being is i just can't afford fancy packets for something that sells for a quarter. I'd rather put growing instructions and that kind of stuff on the website. Make the people go look at it if they have any questions. Just put the basic stuff on the template for the packets.. Name, Website, Type, and perhaps a preprinted space for the results of the germination tests. By law they have to have it imprinted on the envelopes.. but do you ever see any seed companies following the laws? When the rules are enforced.. then i'll follow those rules.. but enforced on everyone. A blank space where we can put a Variety Name, description and test results on an address label and then onto the envelope.. or whatever fill in the blanks we can get imprinted. Cause believe me.. even just sticking labels on packets is time consuming when you do thousands of em at a time. Any step we can eliminate will save everyone more time. But, like i said.. it's a trade off on costs for imprinting.. and then we have to consider how many of each types and all that. That's why i'd like something generic. Anyways.. we'll figure it out. Not much to add there. I agree it's easier to use weights. What's even easier is to use scoops. I like the 1/4 tsp size the best. That is normally about 100-150 tomato seeds... weights about 3 gram. It's a good size for selling on Ebay.. but i'd even consider going with a quarter of that. Any way someone could get a 1/16 tsp to become a standard measurement i'll live a whole lot easier. But how do you get the public to accept tsps as a measure of seeds? Well i've had my ups and downs with this idea for quite a while. I'd like to offer small tiny packets of a half dozen seeds or so. It'd reach more people and get the seed more distrubuted around the world faster.. but then it would become commonplace again and i'd have no more customers. The expense of packaging is neglible.. as i said.. nothing fancy.. those small ziplocs i buy the 2x3 inch size for as cheap as $3.50 a thousand. The labels actually cost more.. and the ink for the printer costs more.. the seeds cost nothing.. but it takes time to count out seeds like you said. I'd think 25 cents would be a fair price for a trial packet.. but now i'm back to that down part. I think people would be willing to spend much more for rare varieties. I've even thought they'd spend as much as a dollar for some of those. I dont' even know if there should be a set price per packet. Keep em guessing.. make some for 25 cents for the common ones.. and a buck for the rarest ones. Anyways.. no matter what they'll be a profit.. just a matter of how much. And i've learned from my construction business if you charge the highest prices people consider you to be better.. why that is i don't know.. and then when you have a half off sale every day of the year.. everyone thinks that you're top quality and they're getting a bargain. Just a psyhcological thing i guess.. but it works, don't ask me how. So that's where i'm struggling with the pricing... i say go for as high a price as possible as the one on the packets.. if we even make packets with prices on em.. but show it on the website as a regular retail price.. and then we can use some creative marketing during off peak times of the year to unload surpluses at 60 or 70 percent off. Hope that makes some sense. Love that suggestion too.. but i got junk for a computer.. it won't let me. Won't even let me install that java i need to use the chatroom here. And i can't afford a new computer right now. You guys go chat.. and then tell me all about it. Dave |
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Post by grunt on Jul 6, 2009 0:52:39 GMT -5
Not a problem Dave. Send enough of each variety that we can seedbank for the future, and for you as well. We will likely do a grow out of them as well, so that we have some documentaion on the specifics of what ever it is. We'll just stick two test tubes of seed in the bank instead of one (or baggie or what ever the seed requires).
Cheers
Dan
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I'm gonna go watch Miss Marple and head for bed. This is gonna be great Dave!