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Post by robertb on Jan 31, 2011 13:05:17 GMT -5
How cold hardy is couve tronchuda? Grunt sent me some, but as it seems to be unavailable in the UK, I need to get it though the winter and get seed off it. Will it need protection if we get another very cold winter?
It seems that it can be planted either in May-June or in autumn; is either of these preferable?
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Post by grunt on Jan 31, 2011 16:27:27 GMT -5
Robert: I would give it a bit of protection if it looks like being a severe winter. We had what is known locally as "an open winter" = temperatures were not that extreme, but weather was such that there was no snow cover anywhere during the colder part of the winter. It kills a lot of stuff that way. I had some duff piled on the one Couves plant and the one Green Glazed collard that made it through the winter = I don't think they would have made it without cover.
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Post by robertb on Jan 31, 2011 17:00:48 GMT -5
Thanks. What are your winter temperatures like? It can go down to -15 or a bit more here; it's exceptional, but it's happened two winters on the trot. You can see why I'm concerned, as we're not used to it!
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Post by grunt on Jan 31, 2011 17:39:41 GMT -5
We usually get down to -20 C at some point in the winter. If there is snow cover that's no problem, no snow cover, and you better have something for protection.
I would say the same would hold for one of your -15 C winters.
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Post by robertb on Jan 31, 2011 17:56:18 GMT -5
I'll keep something ready. Chances are now I'm getting worried, we'll have another really mild one with only a couple of light frosts!
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Post by extremegardener on Feb 4, 2011 17:05:47 GMT -5
I second Grunt about the snow cover... we normally have -30C and can go as low as -37 or so. I've had about 15% survival overwinter (~-30C low) with no protection except good snow cover.
I'm trying to figure out the best planting cycle here to get seeds. An August sowing means I can have lots of smaller plants going into the winter to test and rogue for hardiness - better odds for getting an adequate population of winter hardy seed parents.
A late spring sowing results in nice big plants going into winter, but they take up a lot of garden space. I don't know yet whether the larger plants winter better or not, I think maybe yes - haven't been through enough cycles to be sure.
Also if the August sown plants bolt the following summer, they're really not big enough to be good seed parents, so they need to survive two winters.
Of course the cycle will be different in a different climate.
The couves are interesting to work with, there seems to be enough variability for them to adapt to a lot of different climates.
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Post by robertb on Feb 4, 2011 20:01:16 GMT -5
If you mean snow covering the plants - I assume you do - there's no chance of that. The most I've ever seen in England - mountains excepted - was nine inches or so in 1963, which was the coldest winter we've had since 1740. I was nine at the time; I tried sledging in the local park in shorts, and despite having done a lot of ice climbing subsequently, that's still the most painful experience I've ever had of winter!
I had been planning to plant a few in spring, and a few more in autumn, but it sounds as though I need to concentrate on spring sowing, at least until I've saved a reasonable amount of seed.
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Post by extremegardener on Feb 5, 2011 7:48:29 GMT -5
If you mean snow covering the plants - I assume you do - there's no chance of that. The most I've ever seen in England - mountains excepted - was nine inches or so in 1963, which was the coldest winter we've had since 1740. I was nine at the time; I tried sledging in the local park in shorts, and despite having done a lot of ice climbing subsequently, that's still the most painful experience I've ever had of winter! I had been planning to plant a few in spring, and a few more in autumn, but it sounds as though I need to concentrate on spring sowing, at least until I've saved a reasonable amount of seed. Hard to say what would work best in your climate, but you might find they'll stand the winter with just a bit of mulch - or none - you're in a fairly warm zone - there are so many different factors involved. Anyway, the seed is readily available from www.loja.jardicentro.pt/index.php?cPath=27_437&osCsid=10b46dfb029d04fc93b24071b9a6c2d5, the packets are cheap and you get a huge amount of seed, so I take the approach of just trying a lot of planting schedules and methods, and throw as many plants at our winter conditions as I can to see what can survive. |
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Post by robertb on Feb 5, 2011 11:42:26 GMT -5
I may well end up doing much the same, but I'll start with spring planting, as it would savew a lot of space if I can get seed after one winter! They'll probably stand most of our winters, but we've had two really cold ones on the trot, and if they're correct in thinking this is due to open water in the Arctic Ocean, we're likely to get more of them.
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Post by betonyjoy on May 24, 2011 14:10:10 GMT -5
Hi, my first posting. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about something called Couve Galega? I've just bought some seeds from eBay, from someone with Portugese contacts; apperently that's where the seeds are from. The seller called it green collard, though.
PS VERY interesting discussion, as is the the perennial brassica one!
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Post by robertb on May 24, 2011 17:18:58 GMT -5
I found brief descriptions of couve gelega and couve tronchuda here: database.prota.org/PROTAhtml/Brassica%20oleracea%20(leaf%20cabbage)_En.htm- Covo or couve galega: propagated by seed; similar to Portuguese kale, tall plants with long internodes, for repeated leaf pickings, white flowering, shorter than ‘rugare’ and harvest season also shorter; leaves blue -green; mostly grown from seed imported from Europe, but sometimes from local seed production; local cultivars heterogeneous, sometimes close to ‘rugare’ and ‘viscose’, readily bolting, plants from imported seed reluctant to bolt. – Couve tronchuda: propagated by seed; plant habit half-heading, compact, for single once-over harvest; seed imported from Europe; popular in Mozambique. It sounds as though it's a kale, while couve tronchuda is clearly a cabbage. Does anyone know what 'couve' means? |
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Post by betonyjoy on May 25, 2011 10:24:34 GMT -5
That's great, robertb, thank you. I'll have a look at that link. Got several assorted brassicas, from many-varied seed sources, though they're all only babies at the moment. I want to grow them out and discover which ones will perennialise but also taste good. Now just need to convince the OH that he DOES actually like brassicas!
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Post by extremegardener on May 25, 2011 12:50:23 GMT -5
Google translate renders couve as "kale"
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Post by robertb on Jun 21, 2011 11:55:59 GMT -5
A couple of weeks ago I planted out a row of alternating couves (Gloire de Portugal) and green heading broccoli, under peas. The row was already netted to keep the pigeons off the peas. They got over the netting, which isn't very high, and had a go at the couves, while leaving the others untouched.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Aug 26, 2011 11:15:58 GMT -5
Grunt was kind enough to send me samples of the Jardicentro couves. On the 22nd I planted all 10 varieties in a 200 cell tray so 20 cells per variety. At this point a few days later there are a few cells germinated here and there across the tray except for two varieties that are showing 95 % germ already. These are Penca de Chaves, and de Valhascos. I took some photos of the tray but they aren't really high enough quality to show anything so I won't waste the bandwidth.
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