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Post by canadamike on Aug 15, 2009 0:02:50 GMT -5
can anybody tell me what these are please? I strongly suspect some difference in the cultural perception of what they are.
Google it untill you die, you get no true explanation of what it is, I simply suspect is is basically animal feed corn fed to people. The description of it, or should I say the VERY VAGUE one I could semi-fabricate after having tried for a while, is still partial.
But the more I read about it, or try to read, the more I think we are not culturally describing one thing the way the chinese are...
One sure thing, they are deadly rotten at explaining what it is...
I do have some waxy corn seeds from China
I think this is animal feed corn eaten by humans. Corn gluten ( glutinous) is from feed corn.
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 0:24:39 GMT -5
China is notorious for bad translations, atleast in my eyes.... only time I heard of it was someone here mentioning it.
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Post by Alan on Aug 15, 2009 0:26:37 GMT -5
Not exactly Mike,
Waxy corn is a waxy type endosperm very high in glutton, it is fixed in a way similar to a combination of hominy and steamed rice with added sugar/honey and spices. Kculli is a wax corn.
The only way upon appearance to tell the difference is an iodine test. Non glutinous corn endosperm stains blue with Iodine, glutinous stains purple. Glutinous corn is most closely related to flour type corn but isn't exactly a flour corn, it also has a decently high amount of sugar but isn't a sweet corn, it is an intermediate of some type that actually seems to predate both.
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 0:30:28 GMT -5
alan how would such distinct germplasm show up in china and not mexico the cradle of corn. That seems odd.
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Post by canadamike on Aug 15, 2009 0:37:27 GMT -5
Why would it be odd? Genetics are also a matter of chance and mutations. They are well over 1.2 billion people there, most of them a few years back were farmers mostly organic because of poverty, hence a lot of possible mutation related changes in the genetic fabric of corn.
Mutations happens where the plants are, if there are more plants, there are more chance of mutations.... or, frankly, even out of the ''mutation'' sphere, new genetic combinations or else.....
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Post by Alan on Aug 15, 2009 0:49:50 GMT -5
Recccurent selection under different cultural standards, the central Americans weren't looking for a glutinous trait and had no glutinous crops such as the Asian cultures and so had no use for it, it probably did show up from time to time but was considered a novelty or of little or inconsequential use. Here is a good one for you though......it did show up in Peru, prior to the previously known domestication of corn in Mexico and the link between Peru and China is very strong.....predating Columbus....Waxy corn in China would have also predated Columbus along with Asian Jungle Fowl/ancestral Aracauna type chickens in Peru.
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 0:50:49 GMT -5
well really I was wondering if it supported my theory that people intent and connection to their crops helps direct those mutations
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 0:51:56 GMT -5
alan so I take it you as well think there was a ancient trade route?
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Post by Alan on Aug 15, 2009 0:52:54 GMT -5
Yes, they just select out recombinant recessive genes and mutations to fit their needs, if the amount of germplasm is not highly diverse and becomes inbred you get many addivisms and throwbacks to recessive traits for your needs, if the card deck gets dealt just right that is.
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Post by Alan on Aug 15, 2009 0:54:46 GMT -5
I no longer "think" there was, I'm in contact with some folks who know there was......a statement should be forthcoming in the next few months regarding oriental items including boat fragments found from the tip of South America as far north as Oregon, not just conjecture this time, hard scientific fact. It will likely be ignored just as the Viking/America connection is and not taught in school, but none the less will be fact.
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 1:14:25 GMT -5
Well I know it to, I just worded it that way, heck egyptian mummies tested positive for tobacco, and coca leaves. From south america.
Did you ever see what they just found in the middle of the amazon? holy cow. Right in th middle of the jungle. Rough rough area. Someone noticed what looked like irrigation ditches. So I dont remember the whole story, but apparently it is from 12,000 years ago. a MASSIVE complex of irrigation or maybe drainage ditches I forrget. and signs of a LARGE city complex, with a massive dig being planned. Either way, the amount of earth moved is MASSIVE. It would have likely been one of the largest civilizations in the world at the time, although the landscape was alot different then. A calmer forrest, I forget what type. but not jungle.
And the massive pyramid in europe I frget the country. Started with a b I think. anyway everyone always thought it was a mountain. Then this guy realised it was to symetrical, and eventually found steps going all over, and then underground passages still being dug out. It is apparently now the largest KNOWN pyramid. ALSO 12,000 years old.
The same time a few claim the sphynx and great pyramid is from. extremely interesting things being discovered lately. Isnt it crazy how long it takes for these things to hit mainstream knowledge. Like I met many who dont think vikings came to america despite us having proof WELL before they were in grade school. Its bizarre.
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Post by stevenvance on Aug 15, 2009 8:25:26 GMT -5
I haven't purchased it yet, but the book to read is, apparently, called Eden in the East. The author, an MD, has done a lot of work with genetics, and other fields...he's taken a truly multidisciplinary approach...and has come up with the theory that our global legends of floods and Atlantis-like places are a distant memory of a civilization that was extant along the shores of the SE Asian subcontinent during the last Ice Age. Back then SE Asia was larger than India. When the ice melted, the seas rose dramatically, and submerged a huge area of land there, and would have destroyed that culture. A number of cultures were outposts (or influenced by) of that one...especially pyramid-building cultures, I guess. I know I've read that the Egyptians were on record, way back in the day, as saying they did not build the Sphinx...it pre-dated them. As far as I know, the current "why is the Sphinx so weathered?" theory is the same one, basically, that they've touted for years and years, and there are some very persuasive arguments against it.
The wild thing is, his contemporaries haven't pounded his theory into the ground. He's done A LOT of research.
Alan, and Silverseeds...please keep us up to date on this stuff, if you could. Its fascinating.
Steven
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 13:48:17 GMT -5
Well apparently I was wrong about the age of the amazon irrigation, unless I just couldnt find that specific discovery. Im not sure why I remembered it wrong because I read about them the same day, and was blow away it was 12,000 years ago. Maybe they had to adjust the dates, or I just didnt find the right one. Looks like it is 6,000 years old.
And the pyramids were in bosnia. For anyone who wants to look into that.
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Post by stevenvance on Aug 15, 2009 14:07:06 GMT -5
This link is possible support for the Chinese-Mayan connection, concerning chickens... www.andes.missouri.edu/Personal/DMartinez/Diffusion/msg00386.html I found it with a quick google search. I know there is a book on the similarities between traditional Mayan and Chinese medicine. The "authorities" in these fields usually go to great lengths to protect the status quo, and one of the central tenets of Western Civilization is that civilization started with the Greeks. Even though they said it started with the Egyptians, who said the Sphynx predated them...
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Post by silverseeds on Aug 15, 2009 15:02:15 GMT -5
It is possible the anasazi first thought of domesticating turkeys after hearing about the mayan chickens. Certainly would have been easier to care for a native bird in this harsh area. The anasazi did have contact with people all the way to south america, evidenced by the finding of chocolate, at chaco canyon.
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