Naked Seeded Squash Breeding

[ottawagardener]

Gixxerific: You made me think are there are naked seeded squash that aren't pepo out there? I guess I could ask google...

I was thinking of trying to order from LISP again before I can't (hopefully that won't be for awhile). Little Green Seed is on my list.

[oxbowfarm]

So I'm growing out some of Raymondo's Lady Godiva X Thelma Sanders F2 seed for him for selfing and possibly some backcrossing to Thelma Sanders and/or Kakai. I was wondering about the number of plants needed to possibly find a naked seeded segregant?

After reading the Purdue article it seems like we should see at least some partially reduced seed hulls in the F2, maybe we'll get lucky.

[raymondo]

There seem to be a number of genes involved (?five) so for an amateur with limited space I think it will come down to luck.

[DarJones]

Raymundo, 3 genes.

1 - major gene that reduces the seed coat to a skiffin
1 - dominant gene that reduces the seed coat from a skiffin to a husk
1 - recessive gene that reduces the seed coat to a film but only if combined with the other 2 genes.

docs.agrisafe.eu/training5/Ruckenbauer.pdf

DarJones

[raymondo]

I also found this from Loy, J.B. 1990. Hull-less seeded pumpkins: a new edible snackseed crop. p. 403-407. In: J. Janick and J.E. Simon (eds.), Advances in new crops. Timber Press, Portland, OR.

Inheritance of Seedcoat Development and Color

Several inheritance studies conducted in the early 1950s (Heinisch and Ruthenberg 1950; Mudra and Neuman 1952; Schoeniger 1950, 1952, 1955; Weiling and von Becherer 1950) produced conflicting interpretations as to the mode of inheritance of the hull-less condition. More recent work by Stuart (1983) showed convincingly that a single recessive gene conditions the existence of a thin, parchment like seedcoat. At least two additional modifying genes, one of which appears to be dominant (J.B. Loy unpubl.), further reduce the degree of seedcoat development. In seed classified as completely hull-less, the outer seedcoat layers are reduced to the extent that seed take on the appearance of the inner seedcoat layer (chlorenchyma) which is normally dark green (Fig. 1, 2). I have found two color variants of chlorenchyma issue, light green, recessive to dark green, and yellow, recessive to both dark green and light green. When the outer seedcoat is partially developed (monorecessive condition) seedcoats appear grey against a green chlorenchyma background and tan against a yellow chlorenchyma background.

One thing your link made me think about was crossing a hulless pepo with a moschata to see if the trait could be moved into another species. I like a number of moschatas for flavour and texture of flesh. The addition of hullessness could only be a plus!

[oxbowfarm]

With three genes there should be at least 3 plants out of 64 with completely hulless seeds. Or am I doing the punnett square wrong? I was assuming one dominant and two recessive genes. No doubt it isn't that cut and dried.

That pumpkin harvesting equipment in the Ruckenbauer pdf is pretty wild. Pumpkin combines and giant pumpkin spearing drums! It would be interesting to trial some of those Austrian commercial varieties compared to Lady Godiva, Kakai, etc.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

I dont know anything about naked seeded squash, but year i think 3 genes are involved. I remember reading somewhere about some sort of professional breeder who was doing some crosses between squash family's in an attempt to transfer the naked seeded trait to other squash varieties, but i can't find where it was. I could have sworn it was in Carol Deppe's book about vegetable breeding..

[12540dumont]

Love the scarecrow in the Ruckenbauer fields. Crows never bother my squash. Of course, I also don't plant a huge monocrop of squash.

Found my first Squash Bug today. It's dead.

Little Greenseed is the only squash I haven't started yet, as I was going to do an entire tray and keep them away from everything else. I'm putting them in the melon patch.

All the other squash are up. My Tondo zukes keeled over. I've never had a zuke die before.

Keen, AMK told me that he tried to breed the naked seed squashes with the Moschatas, but did not have any luck.

I have not had any luck breeding a better tasting naked seed. But after this year, when I again have a plethora of LGS to play with, I'll try again. This year I wanted to send as many packages of the LGS as I could spare.

Attachments:

[DarJones]

Hope you have a lot of patience Holly. It will take 9 generations and 2 backcrosses to stabilize a good flavored naked seed storage squash.

DarJones

[oxbowfarm]

Wanna define stable Dar? The more I mess around with plant breeding the less important I find "pure" breeding and stability to be. Certainly Tom Wagner, Ken Ettlinger, and Alan Kapuler don't have a problem selling seed that is often no more than F4 breeding material. For me its about the journey, not the destination, I'm not selling any of this stuff commercially. If any of us did produce a variety that got picked up in commerce all we'd end up with is bragging rights anyway. From what I understand Little Greenseed is still not stable, but Holly loves it.

[12540dumont]

It's true that every now and then Little Greenseed throws an oddball.

What I would love best and would suit me to a T is a Winter Luxury Little Greenseed.

Why? I'm a sorta squashy girl. I LIKE squash. I like pumpkin pie, bread, bars and butter. I like pumpkin curry and I love a good mole.

At least 3 of the recipes use the pumpkin seeds as well as the pumpkin. Kakai gives me lots of seeds, but the chickens won't even eat the shell. That's saying something. The Little Greenseed, like Winter Luxury is the perfect size: one recipe; fits nicely in the CSA boxes, I can pack about 20 of them in an empty apple box.

It's the only naked squash that I've found that's edible. Every once in a while I get a Styria type of thing, but I can tell which ones are them without even opening them up. They lose their Baby Pam sort of roundness and end up being a tall pumpkin.

I'm not sure I'll live as many generations as it takes, hopefully one of my friends on the winter side of the world will help me do this faster.

I think I can make it through at least 4 generations....

[raymondo]

Folks, for as long as it's possible, I'm happy to grow things out for you on an 'if I can' basis. By that I mean if you were to ask me to grow out and evaluate 1000 plants I'd probably say no, or words to that effect!

[jim]

I crossed PI 285611 by Winter Luxury last year...just planted the seed the other day. The PI is a mix, or is segregating for plant type. I used a vining plant, the vine was a very dark green in color and the vine borers seemed to stay away from it. It also has hullless seeds. It was collected in Warszawa.
I love Winter Luxury, it is my favorite pumpkin, but it can be wimpy for me. Seems to be susceptible to disease and insects. Some years it yields well, others Im lucky to get a single fruit per vine.
I plan to do a back cross to W.L. and then sib to see what segregates out...my goal is to get some vigor and maybe some insect resistance into a plant similar to W.L. that may or may not have naked seeds.
If only I had acres and acres to grow them out....
Jim

[oxbowfarm]

Personally, I think the F2 generation is the most interesting thing from a breeding standpoint, you get to see all the combinations start to shake out. I can't wait to see what Ray's Naked F2s look like.

[DarJones]

I picked mature fruits from the Little Greenseed, Gill's Golden Pippin, and Scarchuk's Supreme yesterday. I had one variant plant in the Ligreen seed. It threw fruits that are cheesewheel shaped and turn solid orange color at maturity. I haven't opened it yet, but suspect it will be a normal seeded squash.

DarJones