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Post by traab on Feb 2, 2012 18:40:55 GMT -5
Thanks Keen101! I checked the paper copy of the Native Seed/Search 2011 catalog. I should have written Zea mays spp. mexicana. As they had listed it. I will check the seed packet as well. The Native Seed Search entry does say ' Plants tend to tiller more in northern United States.' At about 42 degrees latitude I was able to mature seed by starting plants in a pot, the plants rooted into the ground then were brought in to finish ripening. The pot warms the soil a bit. I am interested in your observations on the pollen color and growth habits under your growing conditions. I am interested to learn more. It is important to be clear on species identity. I had some teosinte seeds in the 1990's and was given samples from a few generations of crosses but failed to mature plants of the uncrossed teosinte and held on to the sample seed heads too long for them to be viable. I learned a lot from seeing the seeds one a top the other! The branching and tasseling from side branches -not tillers- off the main stalk was a surprise. I enjoyed seeing your photos of your plants. The link to GRINN is helpful.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 9, 2016 15:42:49 GMT -5
Didn't know which old thread to resurrect. This seems good as any. The forum seems to be rather quiet lately in general and on the subject of teosinte / corn even more. Just wanted to post an update on my small Zea Mexicana / Zea Diploperrennis-Maize hybrid patch. They seem to be doing well. The tassles so far have been puny. I'm not sure if that is because of a nutrient deficient. I often fight with that with my regular corn. But i have my first teosinte cob showing silks today, so i tried to manually pollinate it with what little pollen was available from the other tasseling teosinte plant. I believe both of these are Zea mexicana annual teosinte. Green anthers. The other plants i think are Zea diploperrennis hybrids. They have not silked or tasseled yet. If i get seeds forming late i think this year i will dig up the patch and bring them inside when winter approaches. I was only about 2 weeks away from getting viable Zea mexicana seeds to mature last time! It was so disappointing. Here's hoping i get better luck this year! Anyone else growing some teosinte this year?!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 10, 2016 8:22:47 GMT -5
I am growing: Zea diploperennis, PI 462368 Zea mays huehuetenangensis, PI 441934 Zea mays mexicana, PI 658196, Ames 21855 Zea mays parviglumis: PI 566691,PI 384071, PI 462368 Zea luxurians, PI 441933 Zea perennis, Ames 21875 [Zea mays X Z. diploperennis] Ames 13502, Ames 13503 So far, the only accessions that are flowering are [mays X diploperennis] and Zea mexicana (Ames 21855). I am dusting pollen from sweet corn and/or flour corn onto the Z. mexicana plants from time to time... The silks are way too tiny and obscure to want to seek out individual silks for hand pollination, but I can offer them a dusting of pollen. It appears that this variety is flowering in plenty of time to beat the fall frosts... I intend to dig all of these this fall, and look for rhizomes, and then try to overwinter them... I am growing one set of these in an open field. I'm growing another set in a greenhouse, wondering if attempting to keep them alive during short-days will allow them to flower and set seed. Zea mexicana (Ames 21855)
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Post by steve1 on Aug 12, 2016 5:11:35 GMT -5
I have Zea diploperennis seed to plant this year. I gather it's another tropical short day corn like Peruvian Giant?
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 13, 2016 17:16:18 GMT -5
I have Zea diploperennis seed to plant this year. I gather it's another tropical short day corn like Peruvian Giant? That's probably a fair assumption for Zea diploperennis and most of the other teosintes as well that will help you get mature seed. The only variety i have encountered that is closest to temperate adapted is Zea mexicana and the only annual teosinte i will probably work with from now on (without a greenhouse) other than diploperrenis hybrids. Zea luxurians is closest to modern corn in tillers and size with Zea mexicana being single stalked and close as well. I think a hybridization between these two is how we got maize. But that is my own personal theory. Zea perrennis is another perennial one, but i think it has double the chromosomes or something funky like that. Thats why Zea diploperrenis is so widely the one people are excited about since it has the same number of chromosomes as modern maize AND being perennial.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 13, 2016 17:23:46 GMT -5
I intend to dig all of these this fall, and look for rhizomes, and then try to overwinter them... I am growing one set of these in an open field. I'm growing another set in a greenhouse, wondering if attempting to keep them alive during short-days will allow them to flower and set seed. Out of curiosity, how does one identify rhizomes? And how does one properly keep them stored until spring?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 13, 2016 17:32:20 GMT -5
I store corn rhizomes in a root pit: buried under about 18" of soil. I have plenty of room, so I just throw the whole root ball into the pit, and separate them out in the spring. Zea diploperennis rhizomes:
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Post by steve1 on Aug 13, 2016 18:34:43 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) and Joseph Lofthouse at least I won't have to worry about root cellaring. No frost to speak of yet and winter is not that far from over. I think some of the Peruvian Giant corn is going to overwinter too.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 13, 2016 23:45:42 GMT -5
I am growing two accessions of Z. mays mexicana: PI 658196 which was collected in Mexico, at 8000 feet elevation, and 20 degrees North latitude, and Ames 21855 which is believed to have originated as a cross between Z. mays mexicana and a northern flint. Which was then reselected to resemble teosinte. The northern adapted variety is flowering in plenty of time to produce seed this year. The non-adapted accession isn't.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 17, 2016 23:15:04 GMT -5
Photos taken on 2016-08-17 about 2 to 3 weeks before expected fall frosts. All photos to the same scale. The photos with sky are of taller plants... Zea mays parviglumis: PI 566691 Zea mays huehuetenangensis, PI 441934 Zea luxurians, PI 441933 Zea mays mexicana, PI 658196 Zea perennis, Ames 21875 [Zea mays X Z. diploperennis] Ames 13502, Ames 13503 Zea mays parviglumis: PI 384071 Zea diploperennis, PI 462368 Zea mays mexicana, Ames 21855 A weed that mimics the look of corn plants when young. (Some type of sorghum/millet?)
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Post by imgrimmer on Aug 20, 2016 16:39:05 GMT -5
A weed that mimics the look of corn plants when young. (Some type of sorghum/millet?) This plant grows as an heritage in my garden from the preowner as an ornamental. No weedy potential so far. But there are 2 other kind of millet... the worst weed I have ever experienced.
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Post by starbuckwhy on Aug 22, 2016 4:05:31 GMT -5
[Zea mays X Z. diploperennis] Ames 13502, Ames 13503 Zea diploperennis, PI 462368 i am super jealous, i would love to work with the pollen from those hybrids. if it works out with your schedule is there any way i can get a tassel or two? we actually have such a long season out here that my brothers (a few miles away in a warmer region) are going to put in a second crop of corn, divided between their small greenhouse and their main garden. we got some pretty interesting hybrids this year, especial the crosses between the [hominy x blue meal corn] and the glass gem corn. but it would be great to put some diploperennis hybrid dna in there and see what it does. the large hominy corn seems to have a lot of dominant traits, so i wonder how it would react with the dominant traits in the diploperennis hybrids pollen.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 13, 2016 20:27:36 GMT -5
Only two teosinte and/or teosinte hybrids produced pollen and seeds in time before winter. The rest are approaching 8ft tall with no sign of silks or tassels. I think before winter comes i will attempt to transplant them into a bucket and bring them inside in hopes of getting seed to plant again next year. The plants themselves do look healthy though. And surprisingly haven't had two many problems with the awful grasshoppers. Although that may be that i am using scissors to cut the nasty grasshoppers in half whenever i catch them on my corn/teosinte plants.
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Post by steve1 on Sept 14, 2016 18:43:14 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) good to hear you got some seed. Did you get any crosses done? I put in 10 seeds nearly a month ago, no germination as yet. Dug up five yesterday and clipped an end of the seed coat in the hope of helping the process. From a paper I read diploperennis is not supposed to have seed dormancy. Does anyone else that has grown diploperennis have any tricks or encountered this?
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Post by jasonpadvorac on Sept 18, 2016 18:44:47 GMT -5
It looks like I'm going to get my hands on some Z. diploperennis, and will be attempting to get it to flower next season in Washington state so I can cross it with Z. mays (of course). Apparently the problem in northern climates isn't the length of growing season, it is that the trigger to flower doesn't come until too late in our growing season. It looks like Z. diploperennis can be forced to flower earlier by simulating a longer night: www.agron.missouri.edu/mnl/70/77carlson.htmlQuick summary: they covered plants with a trash can from 7:00pm until 7:30am for 11-13 days in late April, 1994, in St. Paul, Minnesota. This trick might also give us some leeway to select for shorter-night triggering, by maybe doing something like only covering some plants for 8 or 9 days, and selecting the few that manage to fruit before the frosts get them. If anybody tries this, make sure you've got a good light seal. With some photosensitive plants at least, and possibly these, even a little light leaking in can prevent the triggering.
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