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Post by reed on Aug 27, 2015 4:16:41 GMT -5
I didn't notice shrunken cobs on the purple stalks just that they were weak in comparison. Had a few purple in the flour patch across the road that did not have the problem, one stalk in particular was almost completely purple, top to bottom really cool looking. Some over there were like trees, turned out way too long season for me though. I had to pick it early cause of coons and even with the shucks pulled back in the hot dry shed the are still not dry. flowerweaver, I'm retiring from trialing tomatoes. I have a real nice one an old lady gave me at work, supposed to be a family heirloom. It is a Ox heart type but she called it beef heart. Another similar but larger that came from Joseph and it has open flowers. A Rutgers that made lots more than the others, Mountain Merit f2, the best of the disease resistant ones I tried , my Cherokee Purples with open flowers and a few others. As a non-binding rule I'm going to start growing more each of the ones I do plant and that I know we like, instead of a few of lots of kinds and hope to find good things to select for. |
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Post by flowerweaver on Aug 27, 2015 8:02:31 GMT -5
We don't have much in the way of tomato diseases down here. I get BER on San Marzano like everyone else and have given up on them because there are so many pastes that do well--Black Plum, Egyptian, Lange Aemer, Old Ivory Egg.
This year we had a bumper crop due to the rain; with our usual alkaline irrigation and high temps we are lucky to get a pound or two off each plant so I must grow many plants. If anything I might cut back on beefsteaks which seem the least prolific and the most prone to bird attacks. Also, I have two tomato seasons here. Since I never know what kind of weather we'll be having when I start them diversity helps me hedge my bets.
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Post by DarJones on Aug 28, 2015 19:18:43 GMT -5
Anthocyanin in corn is not linked to weak stalk. You can breed for purple color with stiff stalks. It is common for high anthocyanin corn varieties to have weak stalks because the background genetics have not been selected for non-lodging. The fastest way to get to high anthocyanin with high standability is to cross with one of the stiff stalk selections from USDA.
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Post by reed on Aug 28, 2015 23:06:24 GMT -5
That's good to know that those traits are not linked cause I like the purple stalks. Unfortunately the other corn that had the strong purple stalks is so huge and so long season it would be hard to time it for crossing and if I did I might have to work on selecting back for shorter season. If I could grow a few acres or even half an acre at a time it would be so much easier. Small patches really cut the probability of what you want just showing up on its own.
On the other hand aren't those stiff stalk lines in the background of a lot of the modern sweet corns? If so maybe some of those genes are already in my seeds.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 29, 2015 2:44:35 GMT -5
The ones i've grown in the past were not weak plants, but had cobs that had 3 times the husks and were smaller. It was really weird. Ironically i have two green plants that have shown some extra husk foliage that i may select against despite them being green.
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 24, 2018 10:36:13 GMT -5
blueadzuki Joseph Lofthouse Lofthouse AndreThis thread has been going on a long time (and some of the users I've tagged aren't active, I know) but I recently re-read it for the second time after some of the comments HERE reminded me of it. Reading back, I'm curious to know the results/ongoing experiences you're having with your own projects incorporating South American/Andean genes into your own varieties. I'm currently working on my own similar project, and information and observations from y'all are always valuable. Also, if anyone knows bjargakarlinn on another forum, or somewhere in the vast interweb, let me know - I'd love to pick their brain on their projects as well.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 24, 2018 11:27:24 GMT -5
Day, you were not referring to me, but i really liked this thread way back so i will chime in anyway. in regards to my anthocyanin-foliage corn that did not have weak plants, but had cobs that were super small and had like 5 times the husks a weird inbred trait that was genetic drag for sure, i have since found and/or bred some purple corn that gets past that issue. So it is possible to get around it. I havn't worked with it much since though, been busy with other projects and no time to fight with the racoons or squirrels, so that project has been on hold.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 24, 2018 12:22:51 GMT -5
Day bjargakarlinn = maicerochicoMy own experience with South American genetics has been mostly utilizing the three composite populations developed by Cargill in the 1970s, samples of which I rec'd from maicerochico. Cargill North Temperate Zone Cuzco, CNTZ Coroico, and CNTZ Cateto. I've also used some specific Cateto Sulino accessions from GRIN along with the CNTZ Cateto. I did also grow some Maiz Morado that I bought from Baker Creek. The BC corn was very interesting, but completely useless as breeding material. One plant grew approximately 18 feet tall, tasseled in July and started its first ear at the end of September, and then was killed by frost 3 days later. The other plants all fell over and died sometime during the summer. Andean corn is really hard to work with, especially the higher in latitude your growing area.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 24, 2018 13:32:11 GMT -5
The South American corns are so thoroughly integrated into my garden, that I don't even think about them any more, as having a separate origin.
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 24, 2018 15:17:19 GMT -5
andrew - I didn't tag you but that doesn't mean I don't value your input, in this and all things!  I just tagged a few of the names off the top of my head from the Andean discussion. I really like this thread too, so I'm glad you're also helping keep it alive. oxbowfarm - thank you! 18ft is a doozy... wow. I tricked my Pisccorunto (K'uyu Chuspi) last year by planting it where it got afternoon shade from a big tree. Some of the plants weren't fooled, but a few stopped growing and started tasselling somewhat synchronously. I should have measured, but alas I don't know how tall they ended up. Definitely overhead, but no where close to 18 ft.
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Post by waynem on Jan 27, 2018 21:50:26 GMT -5
oxbowfarm: Baker Creek has Maiz Morado that has been bred in New Mexico for 20+ years, 8 feet or taller and 100 days or so to maturity and is described as NEW. Does this sound the same as the Maiz Morado that you grew?
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 29, 2018 10:30:49 GMT -5
waynem, I'm not sure, If I recall it was part of the batch of seeds from Joseph Simcox "explorer series" or whatever. I don't even look at Baker Creek anymore, Morado grown in New Mexico for 20 years sounds like a much better bet than the stuff I grew, definitely the morado I had didn't have any photoperiod adaptation at all. Certainly was not 100 day corn. If you want to take the gamble, frankly if Baker Creek said the sky was blue, I'd go outside and double check.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 30, 2018 14:04:32 GMT -5
I think that is the same trait we now call "bearpaw" corn. This link has a picture of an extreme example link |
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 31, 2018 23:05:21 GMT -5
toomanyironsIn case it helps, I grew an Andean Pisccorunto corn last year, and was surprised when one of the ears looked like a dozen itty bitty ears all fused at the base. It was like bearpaw, only to the extreme - imagine each row of kernels having it's own branch. Unfortunately I had to shuck the kernels immediately due to aphids, as the ants farmed aphids right onto my shucked and drying down corn. They really liked the Andean stuff. Anyway, as a result the cob was destroyed as a removed the kernels - the little branches were just too fragile. After some research, I found it's called taccee (Takje) in Quechua, the native language. ( page 65) just as a visual, it was like a cross between D and E  image from HERE
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Post by oxbowfarm on Feb 7, 2018 16:46:05 GMT -5
My answers would be
#1 C
#2 If the inbred line had genetic weakness/inbreeding depression due to stacked homozygous deleterious alleles, then potentially those alleles would become a problem if you inbred the offspring to the point where they were homozygous again. But thats not normally how most regular people maintain OP varieties. You maintain sufficient genetic diveristy and population sizes to prevent inbreeding depression to that level. creating highly homozygous inbred lines is the work of specialist corn breeders. If you don't inbreed them then there's nothing inherent in using an inbred as a parent that will make your work intrinsically weakened.
#3 I don't understand the quesiton exactly. How could it cause problems? Its just corn. As long as it isn't GMO/patented genetics, then ??
I think there is definitely value in using modern breeding material to the extent that it is available. Many modern inbred lines are GMO and proprietary, but many are also available publicly. Modern inbred lines are very different than they were in the early days of hybrid seed production. The continued selection has removed huge numbers of deleterious alleles. Many of the modern inbred lines of Cornbelt Dent are higher yielding than the early HYBRIDS ever were. The selection of many of those lines has created some amazing phenotypes. I frequently drive by a few fields of corn that never got harvested and most of it is still standing tall in February. Thats pure product of hundreds of generations of selection for stalk strength.
As far as popcorn goes, I don't know much about what is available, but I'd recommend talking to Frank Kutka.
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I just tagged a few of the names off the top of my head from the Andean discussion. I really like this thread too, so I'm glad you're also helping keep it alive.
