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Post by robertb on Mar 26, 2011 16:45:27 GMT -5
In William Woys Weaver's book on Heirloom Vege Gardening, he says that even the fava we think is the fava has drastically changed over the years. We can try to maintain a variety, but eventually they evolve. Older varieties I've come across tend to have smaller and fewer beans in a pod; I wonder whether that was what he was getting at. A single variety can no doubt change. Purple Cape caulis may be an example; apparently 19th Century catalogues (it was first recorded in 1808) often list it as broccoli, suggesting that it originally lacked the tight head. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 26, 2011 19:41:53 GMT -5
And even those favas are very very different from their original forms. Once or twice in bags of coriander I've gone through, I have come across favas that, while not tecnically "wild" (Fava beans are one of those crops that no longer have a truly "wild" form in nature) are sufficienty primitive and ancient to give a pretty good idea of waht fava beans might have looked like in thier orginal form. The only traits they share with thier modern version are the distinctive shape (as far as I can tell, only fava beans have that distinctive shape; they dont even share it with their fellow vetches.) The favas were so dark brown they were functionally black (for the most part, favas have gotten paler over the years as well since a paler color often translated to a bean with less substances that are poisonous or bad tasting) and about the size of bb pellets. I never managed to get one to go full term (only one sprouted and a squirrel dug that one up and ate the roots) so I can comment on how they tasted or even on what color the flowers were.
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Post by robertb on Mar 27, 2011 12:43:04 GMT -5
That doesn't surprise me; modern peas aren't much like wild ones, brassicas are totally unlike wild cabbages, and so on.
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 27, 2011 14:18:03 GMT -5
That doesn't surprise me; modern peas aren't much like wild ones, brassicas are totally unlike wild cabbages, and so on. Technically (from an official taxonomic point of view) there isn't such a thing as "wild" peas either, just feral ones. It is commonly accepted that the modern pea evolved from Psium roxburgii but not universally. The fact is that, for a lot of those crops whose domestication is really, really ancient, it's hard to say "this is naturally wild, this is very old domestic that has escaped from cultivation," as there are no spots the thoeretical wild ones grew that have not had domestic grown over them so long that the genes have been mixed and re-mixed over the millenia. Really old peas show up in the coriander quite often as well (way more often than old favas". and some of them looked so little like modern peas it was literally months before I realized that's waht they were. Most have mottled skin (like on a Carlin or Lativian pea) "peppering" (small black specks, such as are common on many older peas) and tend to be the size of a small ball bearing. a lot also have a gene that puts the peas into the pod way closer than they are in any modern pea, so that by the time they are grown and mature, the seeds are basically cylindrical. My old peas crossed with more modern rounded peas the first time I grew them, so I never got this gene expressed in my progeny growings and saw what such pods look like (or maybe I just didn't have enough plants to pollinate them to that degree. but I imagine they would feel like basically a solid mass when mature (there were also ones that were cones which I assume to be the terminal pod peas. The plants are a lot smaller and more gracile though, and mature alarmingly fast (some go from seed to seed in 45-60 days). |
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 25, 2011 14:26:03 GMT -5
I want to thank everyone who sent beans, Dan Grunt, Cortona, the USDA Germplasm, The Phaseolus Group in Bari, Solstice Seed, and some just regular folks who happened to have some in their stash. I received 15 kinds of rare beans (only 2 I can't use for the trial as they aren't pole beans).
At the conclusion of the trial, I will send seed to Dan Grunt and The Long Island Seed Project.
Thank you ! And blessings to each and everyone one of you. May all your beans be magic.
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Post by 12540dumont on Jun 18, 2011 11:16:57 GMT -5
Bean Trial is coming along great. I'm about ready to put up trellis. After the trellis goes up, I'll start taking individual bean portraits. So far, only 2 of them look pretty skimpy. It's very exciting. Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Jun 26, 2011 18:53:52 GMT -5
And last night. Hot again today. Too hot to handle wire. Waiting for it to cool down to install the trellis. That's Carol Deppe's Cascade Creamcap in the corn row. Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Jul 18, 2011 22:27:41 GMT -5
Although the wild boars ruined much of the bush bean portion of the trial, the pole beans are doing well. Dan Grunt if you are out there, look how beautiful the runners on the end are. Attachments:
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Post by grunt on Jul 18, 2011 23:13:59 GMT -5
Looking good. My beans have just decided it might actually be summer now, and maybe they'd better get going. I am almost caught up on "gotta do's", and will make the rounds with the camera soon, and post some pics.
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Post by 12540dumont on Aug 5, 2011 14:08:20 GMT -5
Insuk's Wang Kong Runner Bean on the edge of the Italian Bean Trial. It's a feet cleaning station for the pollinators. Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Aug 5, 2011 14:09:20 GMT -5
The Bean Trial today. It's coming right along. Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Aug 5, 2011 14:11:02 GMT -5
Beans beautiful beans. Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Aug 23, 2011 15:47:55 GMT -5
Rampicante Stegonta, orginally sold by Fratelli Ingenoli Seed Company. I chatted with them and they have reported that they no longer sell this bean. Pity. Another great bean disappears. It's pretty, it's prolific...I can't wait to taste it. It's Green & Purple, what's not to love? Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Aug 23, 2011 17:01:49 GMT -5
This is Cortona's Bean, Del Trasimeno. It's one of the few beans the pigs did not get. That's the problem with bush beans..their too close to the ground! Hey Cortona, this is making beans on the top like a whirlygig! There's some strange beans out there. And this my friends is one of them. I don't know whether to eat it or put it on top of my hat to cool my hot head. Attachments:
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Post by cortona on Aug 23, 2011 17:22:34 GMT -5
Holly you make me happy with this photo! yo have a realy good crop of fagiolina del trasimeno! fantastic! is a personal plasure to see that your seeds work soo good!!!!
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