Herbal medicines banned in EU

[Hristo]

A few months ago:
www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6013380,00.html

Today:
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/01/new-eu-rules-on-herbal-remedies
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/health/article-1382135/Herbal-medicines-banned-EU-directive-comes-force.html

While I agree that there are quite a lot suspicious (to say the least) herbal medicine products imported from China, it's pretty obvious that this is just the excuse they looked for to "regulate" the trade in favour of the pharmaceutical companies.

I was 10 y.o. when the communism fall here, so I have very clear memory what it was back then... Year after year, step by step EU is on the way to surpass the communism...

[jack66]

I am of your opinion Histro.

[mnjrutherford]

Self-medicate. Food is the first line of medical defense. I am of the opinion that the more independent we are of the medical community, the safer we are. I see this as a most detestable state of affairs, but it is as it has become.

[bertiefox]

How many thousands of people actually die or are made VERY ill from the side effects of conventional pharmaceuticals? That problem outweighs massively any possible problem from herbal medicines. I agree they should all be marketed with cautions about possible risk and dose, but many are just ineffectual rather than dangerous. I've always gathered my own herbs and made treatments from good herbals, which we will be able to do in future, and when I've bought them, I've chosen them for what they contain. I wouldn't ever risk taking oriental herbal preparations particularly without proper advice or knowing what they contain in detail.

[robertb]

We're just going to have to get better at growing our own.

[heidihi]

I was going to avoid this topic because I know my thoughts while very liberal where holistic healthcare is concerned ...are very "western" based...am a registered nurse now for more than 20 years I am also a strong proponent of safe standardized medications and herbals ..I want the shit tested and standardized ..I want folks to be accountable for what they put into bottles and then what they say it will cure or help!!! Come on now this is just about marketing and selling crap in a bottle then making tons of money while people pee it down the toilet or even worse end up toxic from it ...while I am at it I am also very much in favor of a solid national health care plan that provides strong emphasis on public health

would you call me a communiist? socialist? I am not I am a very patriotic Democrat (go figure huh?)

I believe that herbal medicine has a place as long as if it is called "medicine" it become standardized ..that is not communist that is SAFETY !!! Seriously? you really think what comes in your herbal bottles really is always what it says it is? how? no one is monitoring it...

you do not like the FDA> but it is constantly doing things to save our lives!

people in healthcare are as well and I am sad when I read things sometimes because obviously there is only a superficial knowledge of what we do day to day!

I hear people say "I do not believe in flu shots" every single day ..ok ..well you many not "believe in them" but they do exist and honestly the flu kills ...so while I am caring for your airway keeping you breathing while the flu fills your lungs with fluid ...and you have rejected an injection that could have prevented that ..do I judge you??? NO ..i am sorry you did not take me up on my offer but I will still care for you ..so how is that "detestable"? No matter what your choice may be ..just know I am here cleaning up after you try!

"I do not vaccinate because those big government companies do not care about my baby" well honey your baby does not have to worry about being in an iron lung if you immunize



if we are going to keep reproducing with reckless abandon we should be prepared to care for people

does that make me a communist I wonder

do it "naturally"
and yet you are in my triage line when anything strikes your family ..with your list of herbals that you have opted for while your blood sugars are through the roof .....all the while complaining about the shitty care we give...I will still smile get your blood sugar down and offere you evidence based advice on how you can prevent this from happening again

I take great pride in being a nurse ..I am glad that I am able to work for a company who does offer things like ginger tea for nausea ..but while I am starting your IV to replenish the fluids when you are hurling and then we do have zofran..because ain't no ginger in the world that will help with your food poisoning when you do not can your tomatoes properly!!!

herbal remedies are fine and should be learned about and respected as are all medications...I have studied wildcrafting ..make herbal tinctures myself ..and practice acupuncture

in healthcare people need to be wise consumers ..the more educated you are ..the better you do

eating well getting plenty of exercise ..all well and good until you do have something hit your life that can not be predicted .....and do not get me started on how people have disdain for mental health care ..we are doing the best we can and when someone takes the brain as a serious organ we will do better I am sure ..right now it is the "buck up" attitude that does not help when someone is paralyzed with anxiety or depression that has nothing to do with will power or demons it is a illness ...errr I digress...

I think being LESS dependent on health care as a nurse is always my goal for you healthy human being!!! But to say it is detestable is kind of an insult to my being because my career is my calling not just a job!

I disagree that people should self medicate it is a dangerous road if you do not know what you are doing ..and just because it is labeled "natural" does not mean it is safe! I am against these herbals at the stores the profess to cure it all and have absolutely no science behind them..and just because it works does not mean it is good for you!!!

I want people to be safe and healthy mentally and physically ...that does mean standardizing herbals..making people justify and pay for testing and studies.. ..sorry but I do ..

I had a guy poison his kid giving him colloidal silver for his strep throat instead of penicillin we offered ..the child ended up not only toxic but guess what ..he still had strep and while strep itself is not the killer it can trigger your immune system to do pretty scary things to your body ..

awesome give your kids heavy metals ..herbal remedies..then come to us to fix the damage ...perfect ..

funny thing is ..I believe in silver as a wonderful thing to reduce bacterial load ...in a tube from a standardized recipe ..from a legit manufacturer ... I do use silver with great success to resolve chronic wounds..on burns there is nothing better....but that is ON THE SKIN NOT IN THE MOUTH ..,,we even have dressings made from seaweed and silver now...does that mean you can go harvest seaweed and mix it with silver at home then put it on a wound and have it resolve..maybe ..but the quantities and cleanliness are all a consideration ..so is the type of wound ..is it arterial ..is it vascular ..the result of an injury?

why is education and science frowned on these days?

I believe there is a place for everything in healthcare ..to include medications...manipulations...herbals....needles...syringes..scalpels ...prayers ...chanting ..whatever ...


and finally ..in case you have not noticed ..pills really work for some folks ..I know you will have to pull my welbutrin rom my cold dead hands before I will give it up ...say what you will but all the fresh air ..good food ..exercise and sunshine ...all the St John;s wort ..none of that helped me live

I would be "alive" with out it ..but I would not be "living" ..I had a tragic event that left my life crushed my brain did not heal and I needed help period ...

I am so grateful for my profession and very proud indeed I chose to be an RN ..and someday when you guys need it I am happy and thankful "I" (figuratively) am here for you ..

.I refuse to not say that in this thread or any thread that has anyone imply that some how unregulated herbals are better than standardized medications


I will take evidenced based healthcare over pressumed natural medicine ..any day ..show me the evidence and studies and I will try it ....honey for example is a great wound healer ....I am not going to put honey on YOUR wound just yet.... but we are right around the corner from a product we can use that is safe evidence based and standardized ..patience grasshopper .....

thank you ..done now

[Joseph Lofthouse]

May 4, 2011 9:10:05 GMT -5 heidihi said:

I was going to avoid this topic

I will avoid the topic altogether... May you find happiness by living within the world view that you have chosen for yourself.

[heidihi]

May 4, 2011 9:33:41 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

May 4, 2011 9:10:05 GMT -5 heidihi said:

I was going to avoid this topic

I will avoid the topic altogether... May you find happiness by living within the world view that you have chosen for yourself.

thanks I will and good bye

[johno]

I'll say a little on this topic, because I only know a little. My sister is a doctor (MD), specializing in PTSD research for veterans. As you might imagine, we've had discussions about herbal medicine and modern medicine. In full disclosure, I tried to be a modern doctor, but wasn't smart enough. So I look at this subject from both "sides" at once.

The way I understand it, and someone in the know please correct me if I'm wrong, the contents of herbal supplements are unregulated here but were regulated in Europe. That seems to be an important distinction for this discussion.

[Hristo]

You took me wrong about the "EU is on the way to surpass the communism". I mean EU is on the way to something different than the communism, but as bad or even worse than communism. Probably Neofeudalism is OK term to describe it.

I do not know why you even mention colloidal silver!

"I disagree that people should self medicate it is a dangerous road if you do not know what you are doing" ..... "I want people to be safe and healthy mentally and physically ...that does mean standardizing herbals..making people justify and pay for testing and studies.. ..sorry but I do .."
Translated: People are stupid I want someone else to decide instead of them what is good and what is bad for them... This logic has NOTHING to do with democracy! Some people are indeed stupid, but why you using them as excuse to justify changes which will remove the right of choice from the rest? As I said it - "Year after year, step by step". Last year the seeds. This year the herbs. Next year the right to breed hens, because someone got Infected by Salmonella eating eggs from his small farm. After 2 year home canning will be banned because someone died from Botulism... I really hope you will realise how wrong is your logic. I do not think that sacrificing the freedom for some imaginary safety is a fair trade.

"in case you have not noticed ..pills really work for some folks .." This is true, they really work for some diseases, does this means that the natural herbs should be treated like these owned by some company pills! bertiefox, said it best, I can not add anything more.

P. S. Now the proper place of this topic is in the Soapbox

[steev]

Good rant, heidihi! I share your firm belief in reality-based thinking. I come from a family that had a strain of faith-based healing for a while. We still remember the cousin who died of gangrene in a broken leg while his mom prayed unceasingly. So many forget that before all this "science" and "regulation" stuff, average lifespan was in the 30's, not the 70's.

I admit to avoiding contact with medical practice, but that's because I doubt people, not science-based medicine. When the enormous tonsil that re-grew when they missed a bit of it when I was a child swells up with strep throat, you bet I want that shot of penicillin and some pills of the same.

Science is a tough sell, since it requires unending questioning and learning, even sometimes painful revision. Regulation is a tough sell, as it seems to infringe on freedom, but I don't want people free to sell toxic products with misinformation, regardless of whether they do so from stupidity, ignorance, or avarice. Too often, what you don't know WILL hurt you.

Thanks to all responsible healthcare workers for their efforts to heal people's afflictions, even the self-inflicted ones.

[mnjrutherford]

FDA is not all that competent. How many meds have been recalled because they were not safe? Herbal meds are NOT any better though. I don't see anyone emerging in the field as truly competent.

My personal bottom line is that there are some FDA drugs that are better than some herbals and there are some herbals that are better than some FDA drugs. Some folks are going to go through life just fine and dandy, others are going to suffer at the hands of others, and some will suffer of their own accord.

Proof positive that we are all, ALL, ignorant to a degree.

[steev]

Right on! Ya pays yer money an ya takes yer cherce.

[paquebot]

People used to medicate themselves with herbs and they lived to the ripe old age of 40. Thanks to modern medicine, I plan to double that.

Martin

[steev]

There is a tendency to forget how recent has been the arrival of modern, Western, medicine. So many people are still living in traditions established before there was much access to evidence-based, as opposed to anecdote-based, medicine. Couple that with big pharma needing to recoup development costs and make great pots of money for the shareholders, while the FDA is underfunded, understaffed, and under-appreciated, and you have a culture of drug-pushing and denial of responsibility for bad results. Add in the number of people who have little grasp of biological processes, and who therefore want everything fixed NOW, like it's just a matter of a change of batteries and "what routine maintenance?", and woops!, look at all the drug-resistant bacteria!

Hundred and fifty years ago, medical practice was so unavailable or undesireable, it may have made sense to just pray. Billions of years of evolution truly have produced some remarkably resilient creatures, but not all of them are humans. I generally just crawl into my lair and vegetate in the infrequent occasions on which I am clearly not well, but mostly if I'm well enough to do so, I go to work, trusting in a self-generated fever to sweat out the badness. I recognize that as I grow older, my innate awfulness is less protection against invaders than formerly; still, I'm not very social and I don't have any rugrats around, so I rarely even catch cold. All things considered, I got dealt a pretty good hand, gene-wise, and I rely on the truth that only the good die young.