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Post by tedmeredith on Aug 25, 2016 1:13:44 GMT -5
Thank you Tom for your most kind and generous words about my garlic book. It gladdens my heart to know that you have used it to the extent that it requires duct taping! Regarding Ron Engeland, it is my understanding that after he and his wife divorced (many years ago now) that the farm went to his wife and he essentially withdrew from any active pursuit of garlic interests. This is truly sad and a great loss to our garlic community. That he as a lay person had such keen perception in identifying garlic groups that would later be substantially affirmed by molecular studies is quite remarkable. His passion and intuitive depth of understanding was quite something. He is very much an inspiration to us all. Congratulations Zach on your production of 700+ seeds last year. That is truly an outstanding accomplishment! One would normally think that production of seeds was nearly all of the battle, but unfortunately with garlic the seed grow-outs are also quite a challenge. Different approaches to grow-outs can and have worked, including outdoor direct seeding, but the most dependable method seems to be bleach and moist cold treatment followed by planting in seed starting mix in a controlled environment as described in our article garlicseed.blogspot.com/p/growing-garlic-from-true-seed.html and the addenda garlicseed.blogspot.com/p/addenda-to-article-growing-garlic-from.html What we describe is essentially the method recommended by Dr. Maria Jenderek, who while in the private sector produced literally millions of garlic seed and subsequently generously shared the information after becoming a USDA researcher. A couple of other thoughts—bottom heat should not be applied. A range of ambient temperatures will no doubt work. My ambient temperatures have generally been in the 55 to 65 degree F range, occasionally up to 70 degrees F. Most germination occurs in about 7 to 10 days, though weak seed can continue to germinate up to several months later. Viable seed should be hard and as large as possible (though it will still be smaller than onion seed). Seed that readily crumbles under finger and thumb pressure is likely not viable. Ted garlicseed.blogspot.com/p/growing-garlic-from-true-seed.html |
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Post by reed on Aug 25, 2016 4:38:54 GMT -5
I checked back in notes and found I received seed from kazedwards in late November 2015. I planted some immediately outside thinking they might lay there till spring and sprout, none did. I put the rest in the fridge or maybe freezer, don't remember for sure, and planted them on the south windowsill in mid January. They were slow to sprout and slower to grow. I planted them in the ground on April 20, two almost immediately dried up and the other is still growing. My notes show it was hot and dry the day I planted them and it has been hot all season. So if heat (above 80 F) is counter productive it seems I should go ahead with experiments on growing some through winter in pots so they can bloom before next years heat arrives. My garlic likes it cold anyway, bulbils that sprout without any human intervention usually stay green all winter even if they don't grow much. I guess I'll just leave my TGS plant alone for now. I kinda wish it would die back so I could dig it up and see whats there but not gonna risk it unless it does. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 25, 2016 23:50:36 GMT -5
I harvested my garlic seed heads today that have been growing in an open field. They are at the stage where the stems are dry, but the ovaries are still wet. Black seeds are visible in some of the ovaries. I opened up some of the ovaries by scraping with a piece of plastic from a ball-point pen cap. From variety PI 540319, I collected 33 seeds from 6 umbels. There are 184 umbels total. It's looking like it will be a good year for garlic seed! I immediately planted the seeds by pressing them into the surface of some potting soil, and watered by bottom-soaking. Call it the subsistence-farmer's version of embryo rescue. I'm intending to put them in the fridge in a few minutes, and then see if they will germinate when I take them out...
I harvested perhaps 30 seed heads from all the other varieties of garlic in the field, and combined them into a separate lot. There are some garlic seed heads in the greenhouse still: some growing in dirt, some as cut-flowers in a vase.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 28, 2016 12:13:19 GMT -5
Today, I extracted another 33 wet garlic seeds from their ovaries, and surface sowed them into a pot that I put in a south facing window (that doesn't get direct sunlight this time of year). Variety PI 540319. I bottom soaked, and put the pot in a plastic bag, so that I don't have to water them.
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Post by garand555 on Aug 29, 2016 14:39:06 GMT -5
An update: My softneck garlic that turned to hardneck garlic produced no seed. The anthers were yellow, and I suspect male sterility. I'm going to try again next year, but this time, I'm going to plant it next to my hardneck garlic that has produced seed for me in the past. Hopefully, they flower at or near the same time. My hardneck garlic did very well. It produced seed in 2014 (which I conveniently misplaced and found again this year,) and I got twenty some seeds. This time around, I waited until the first ovary started to open up on its own, then cut all of the flowering heads off and put them into a paper bag to catch the seeds as they were released. They're still opening and releasing seeds, and I already have over 200!  I'm easily going to get over 300 seeds this year. This has me convinced that there is more than just chromosomal damage hindering TGS production in garlic. I think it is a combination of damage and epigenetics. The garlic produced a few seeds in the past, but was not grown from TGS. My guess is that some genes got flipped on or off, and that was passed on to the clones that I grew. The garlic produced TGS much more prolifically this time. The interesting thing to see will be the germination rates for the TGS this time around. Will it be the 13% that I regularly see listed for first gen TGS, or will it be something better? |
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Post by kazedwards on Aug 29, 2016 21:27:14 GMT -5
I have noticed that seed production gets better each year pending this year of coarse. I had a huge increase from the fist year to the second. I did have more plants though. This year I noticed how much stronger the flowers seemed. They competed against the bulbils really well. I just hope I didn't mess up by cutting them and putting them in water.
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Post by kevin8715 on Sept 17, 2016 2:24:44 GMT -5
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Post by tedmeredith on Oct 22, 2016 15:33:37 GMT -5
I had not heard from Dr. Buddenhagen in some time, but I happened to receive an email from him today. He indicated that he has 2016 seed for sale at $15/100 or $25/200. For anyone interested in growing out seed, I would highly recommend the seed from Dr. Buddenhagen. His seed are products of multiple seed generations and he reports that some of his cultivars produce seed without manipulation. Dr. Buddenhagen is a world renowned researcher with special interest in the sexual reproduction of plants that are normally reproduced vegetatively. In his “retirement” he has worked with garlic from true seed. We are indeed very privileged that Dr. Buddenhagen is making the product of his efforts available to us. His website has not been updated for 2016 as I write this, but the seed can be ordered at www.ivansnewgarlics.com/garlic-order-form I believe an email address for inquiries may be iwbuddenhagen@ucdavis.edu Ted garlicseed.blogspot.com/p/growing-garlic-from-true-seed.html |
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Post by bryajw on Oct 22, 2016 19:58:24 GMT -5
I was able to collect about a thousand true garlic seeds from my Chesnok Red this season.
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Post by tedmeredith on Oct 27, 2016 18:26:17 GMT -5
Congratulations bryajw. As I recall you use the cut scape method. There had been some thought that because Purple Stripe scapes are not as robust as some of the other seed producers, the in-the-ground method might be more reliable for them. Your excellent success with the cut scape method with Chesnok (aka Shvelisi) indicates that the cut scape method can work just fine for Purple Stripes as well. Thanks for sharing the information. Ted garlicseed.blogspot.com/p/growing-garlic-from-true-seed.html |
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Post by keepitrealvegetables on Nov 4, 2016 13:20:23 GMT -5
Hi fellow garlic nerds! Thanks Ted for letting me know about this forum. Happy that there will be some options to replace the SSE forum on this topic.
I recently took a little time to write down my method for producing true seed, which I will share with you here.
#1: choose a promising variety.
Any of the old purple stripe varieties and several rocamboles seem fertile. Seek older varieties, which in general have smaller cloves and bulbs. These strains behave more like wild garlic varieties, sending equal energy to bulb and to flower, making flowers more likely to be viable.
#2: plant in your best soil and location.
In my experience, garlic prefers rich dark clay soils that have lots of organic matter.
Full sun is a necessity.
Plants that would create true seeds in ideal conditions may not do so in soil/conditions that are not optimal for growth and plant health.
Plant your garlic for seed next to other flowering plants that attract a wide variety of pollinators. Herbs, and in particular carrot, dill and other plants from the umbelliferae family seem to attract the widest selection of pollinators in my gardens.
#3: plant in blocks, by variety.
Plant 6+ plants of each variety in an 8” grid, with each varietal block next to the other. When the plants set scape and flower, tie all the flowers of each variety together into a bundle for increased pollination.
Hopefully cross pollination occurs, which will increase garlic’s biodiversity as well as its ability to adapt and thrive within your particular environment.
#4: remove bulbils.
When the scape has formed a nearly mature flower head, but before the spathe cracks open on its own, slit the spathe open with a sharp knife and carefully peel it back, but keep it intact and loosely attached in order to replace it after bulbil removal.
With the spathe peeled back, find an area towards the base of the flower head, and gently rub your thumbs into the bulbils until they begin to loosen and fall away. Once you have carefully cleared a small area of bulbils, it becomes gradually easier to loosen and remove the adjacent bulbils, as they are all packed tightly together. Be careful during this process not to damage the fragile threadlike flowers found between the bulbils. These are the flowers that produce the true seed.
At least once a week, re-examine the plants and remove any leftover or additional bulbils that may have formed. Garlic plants are persistent in their desire to propagate vegetatively, whether from clove or bulbil. We must insist on their capability to reproduce sexually.
#5: Watch for swelling ovaries.
Continue to irrigate the garlic as usual. After removing all bulbils from the flower heads, observe the flowering cycle, and keep an eye out, as the flowers fade away, as to which blossoms are forming mature ovaries. Mature ovaries are fairly obvious, as they turn a healthy green and swell into cheerful little berries.
(Some growers sever the scapes from the plants to complete the seed maturation process. I am of the opinion that the plants are better left in place, in the ground, so as to draw as much of the total energy of the grounded plant as possible into the seed.)
#6: Capturing / harvesting seed.
When the mature ovaries have begun to dry and lose their color, watch carefully for the opening of each seed pod, which will split open when dry enough. Harvest the seeds before they fall on the ground. To lose as little seed as possible, wrap the seed heads in a plastic bag and fasten with a rubber band to capture all loose seed during this period.
#7: Preparing seed for germination.
If you have produced and gathered viable true garlic seeds, they will look a lot like onion seeds – perhaps a bit smaller, but still dark, black and firm, and with a noticeable curvature of the hypocotyl.
Once you have your viable seeds, cold stratify them for 1-2 months in the refrigerator, or outside if conditions are favorable (i.e. quite cold).
I stratify my seeds in the fridge. I get a paper towel very lightly damp, and spread my seeds onto that, and then I seal in a plastic sandwich bag and place on the top shelf inside my fridge.
In January, I transplant the seeds from the fridge into small open flats. I’d recommend spacing seeds about ½” to 1” apart in cells at least 2” deep in seedling mix. The seedlings are easily separated - worry more about depth than spacing.
Set the transplants under fluorescent lights for 12-16 hrs. per 24 hour period.
I accomplish this on my Metro restaurant racks, each of which are rigged with fluorescent shop light fixtures on automated timers hanging from retractable chains, suspended 1-3” above the soil.
(Heat mats seem unnecessary and possibly disruptive to the germination of cold-loving garlic seedlings.)
#8: Germination! Caring for infants . . .
True garlic seeds follow a very similar germination pattern to onions. First, a single green shoot will emerge from the soil. Often, the black shell of the seed will still be attached to the tip of the shoot. Water regularly (once every week or so) but don’t over-water. Some seedlings will prove themselves vigorous - others will not. Some seeds will fail due to genetic deficiencies. Others will thrive despite their circumstances. These are the ones to preserve.
#9: Hardening off for the real world.
At an appropriate moment in early spring, begin hardening off the seedlings for transplant into the garden. This could be February, March or April, depending on your location. Transplant seedlings as soon as the risk of last hard frost has passed, or slightly before. Garlic is pretty tough, so light frost isn’t a problem. If you are worried about the fragility of the seedlings, you can always transplant them into walls of water, which will definitely protect them.
#10: To bulb or not to bulb?
Over the course of the growing season, your garlic plant will either: a) create a new bulb with individuated cloves, or b) form a single unindividuated single clove (a “round”). If it creates a new bulb, divide the bulb up and replant the cloves separately as per usual in the fall. If the seedling forms a round, sometimes it is advantageous to over winter the plant in place, in hopes that it will form an individuated bulb the following season. In my experience, this is best accomplished with a wall of water placed around each individual plant. The thermal protection provided by the wall of water seems more than adequate to preserve the plant into the next season, when it often will turn into a monster bulb to compensate for the delay!
#11: The Next Generation
Once you have generated true garlic seed and brought it into fertility, you must decide how to allocate your progeny into the future. Will you replant your cloves to produce more flowers and true seed? Or will your strain be grown out to create a hardy stock of cloves and bulbs? Perhaps you would be wise to do both.
In any case, choose carefully and don’t be sentimental, because not all strains prove advantageous, and ultimately your goal should be to produce varieties that are the healthiest and most productive in your particular environment.
Some characteristics worth selecting for:
- early maturity
- disease resistance / immunity
- new colors / shapes / flavors / medicinal contents
- ability to grow from seed to mature bulb in single season
- increased vigor and productivity in specific microclimates
Disclaimer: This is all strictly based on my limited experience growing true garlic seed in a very dry desert corner of the western United States. What applies here may not necessarily apply in your particular climate.
That being said, I am always interested to share ideas, methods, and innovations with fellow garlic breeders.
Happy evolving!
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Post by philagardener on Nov 4, 2016 18:41:12 GMT -5
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Post by steev on Nov 5, 2016 0:35:50 GMT -5
Damn! Feels like I just took TGS 1A-1B and I didn't even have to get a student loan. Thanks so much!
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Post by tedmeredith on Nov 5, 2016 23:01:37 GMT -5
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Post by richardw on Nov 6, 2016 1:45:22 GMT -5
Welcome Tyler, great having so much knowage now within this TGS thread. A look at my dedicated TGS bed, apart from a small rust attack about a month ago i'm quite pleased how they are doing.  |
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