True Garlic Seed

[reed]

I planted a TGS hopes patch this afternoon, some Russian Red, Spanish Roja and German Brown that toomanyirons sent me,some Chesnok Red from kazedwards and some of my own Reed's Hoosier Homestead. I planted in an large pot buried in the ground and it is crowded. Just mixed it all up except the Chesnok, I tagged the corner it is in. . 

Speaking of Chesnok Red, kazedwards  sent me some seed last year and three sprouted. I reported earlier that two immediately died as soon as planted out and Zach said they might not actually be dead. I thought that was just wishful thinking, they were very obviously dead, dead and gone. Well, I was wrong, their back, small but definitely not dead. 

[kazedwards]

reed that's awesome to hear. I hope by next year the grow to full bulbs.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Nov 4, 2016 13:20:23 GMT -5 keepitrealvegetables said:

To lose as little seed as possible, wrap the seed heads in a plastic bag and fasten with a rubber band to capture all loose seed during this period.

To minimize the risk of mold, I store seed heads in paper or cloth bags.

[keepitrealvegetables]

Good call, @josephlofthouse. Condensation in the bag would be bad for seed.

toomanyirons , I must defer to the expertise of Ted and Avram on the issue of which rocamboles might be most fertile. I must admit that almost all of my information regarding this subject before I began my experimenting came from Ted and Avram's SSE article, and the related SSE forum. The TGS seed that I have been able to produce myself has come from purple stripe varieties. I have one particular strain that I got from Ivan Buddenhagen ("#25") that he classified as a rocambole that is doing very well in my climate, but I am unsure of its origin.
If you haven't already, I would look into procuring some bulbs and/or seeds from Dr. Buddenhagen and Avram at garlicana.com if you want to start with a guaranteed solid choice. tedmeredith probably has some good suggestions of where to begin.
Regarding planting bulbils in the hopes that they will be more likely to produce true seed, I am skeptical. It seems to me that you still want as large a clove as you can muster, even for the purpose of producing true seed, because the larger the clove, the more total energy the plant will have. But I am curious to hear how your experiment goes.

[steev]

Were you saying that those purple-stripes produced umbels that were one and one quarter inch in diameter? Interesting, if so.

[tedmeredith]

Dr. Buddenhagen refers to his garlics as belonging to the Rocambole group, but I would say that they fit in the broader meaning of rocamboles, that is, strongly bolting garlics with scapes that have pronounced curls before straightening. As far as I know none of them belong to the Rocambole horticultural group in the narrower and popular sense of the term.

I am aware of credible reports of seed from three Rocambole cultivars, one from Rocambole Music (PI 515972) (not the Porcelain Music). Unfortunately, the USDA stock of it is very heavily virused and weak growing. I grew it for awhile, but abandoned it. Another credible report from a locally named Canadian cultivar called Quebec, and another from the cultivar Puslinch, also known in the US as Ontario Giant. Molecular studies have shown that Rocamboles are a clearly distinct group, but also quite genetically diverse. It is quite possible that particular cultivars would have the highest, or perhaps only chance of reproduction. Of the groups known to produce TGS, I would say that Rocamboles are perhaps the least likely to find success. On the other hand, Rocamboles are highly desirable garlics, and getting viable seed from them is certainly a worthwhile pursuit.

Ted
garlicseed.blogspot.com/p/growing-garlic-from-true-seed.html

[steev]

This all sounds so very authoritative; excellent.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

This fall, I abandoned the perennial garlic bed that I have used to produce seed the past few years.

I took the 3 (or 4) varieties that have produced the most seeds, and interplanted them into a row: alternating varieties as I went along. Flowering times may not overlap, but whatever. Two of the varieties are Chesnok Red from kazedwards, and PI 540319. The other (one or two) varieties are NOIDs that I call "Seediest". These are the only varieties that have consistently produced seed for me, so I'm focusing on them, and culling all other varieties, even those that have produced seed in other locations.

Earlier in the fall, I extracted seeds from green ovaries and immediately planted them. There was no germination from 33 seeds left at room temperature. One seed germinated almost immediately upon warming after a month of refrigeration.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I moved discussion about "Garlic Rounds" to a new thread: alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/8926/garlic-rounds

[SouthernGarlicGrower]

Hi everyone,

Sorry I'm late to the game. Deal me in!

[SouthernGarlicGrower]

I just read this entire tread. Amazing to see it grew to where you guys are today. I look forward to joining the effort to grow great garlic.

Just finished planting out 25 lbs. of garlic this year.

Here is my 2016 list of garlic.

INCHELIUM RED - Artichoke
ASIAN TEMPEST - Asiatic
BURGUNDY - Creole
CREOLE RED - Creole
MOROCCAN CREOLE - Creole
PESCADERO RED - Creole
ROSE DU LAUTREC - Creole
AJO ROJO - Creole
GERMINADOR - Creole
GEORGIAN CRYSTAL - Porcelain
CHESNOK RED - Purple Stripe
METECHI -Marbled Purple Stripe
NOOTKA ROSE - Silverskin
VIETNAMESE RED - Creole

I planted 3.5 lbs. of the Chesnok Red. I am planing to dedicate part of this cultivar to the TGS cause. I planted all the largest bulbs first. These I will save to replant. The rest I will let go to seed.

I also planted 4 lbs of the Metechi. I could do the same with it.

[nathanp]

I have the following varieties that I grew last year, to increase seed quantity. I hope to have TGS from a few of these next year. This year I made a half hearted effort with no result:

NOVO TROITSK (USDA W6 26171)
CHESKOK RED (aka SHVELISI or USDA W6 35657)
NAVISTAR
CHIMYAN (W6 46684)
PSKEM RIVER

I am eating all the other garlic I have grown that is not fertile

[steev]

As long as there is a game, one is in time, given the inclination to play.

Not to break concentration on TGS, an important and worthy game, but all other veggies are also worthy of play; we must press on all fronts, that we may hope to survive, that there continue to be a game. Those who specialize are valuable, given their ability to dive deeper.

[richardw]

Very well said toomanyirons

[kazedwards]

Dec 2, 2016 19:53:23 GMT -5 SouthernGarlicGrower said:

toomanyirons: I have just read five years of post in this tread. Never did I read such a cold welcome to a new member. Did I just break into a Northener only old boy's club or something. If we Southeners are not welcome maybe I should go somewhere else and play.

In what way was that I cold response? It seemed to me that he was very welcoming to sharing info and experiences with you. Even encouraging you and others to join in trying to get true seed. He only pointed out that you might have difficulty getting true seed if you are in the south. He seems to be looking forward to hearing of your experience particularly because the south is not the typical hardneck growing part of the country.