Garlic trial, nolo contestere

[potter]

Do you know the story behind Aleksandra?

Well...as far I remember from what I've read.
It was ..ohh..I have to dig it out...Right, "It was brought from St. Petersburg from begining of the century"..that would be early 1900's I assume... it is not actual Finnish bred variety but a landrace and original variety would be Russian Giant.
The lady who bought it from 'cross the border' was from 'well of family' and the garlic was named after her.
Now I've read bits and pieces from several Finnish sources so if you need anything more specific..I have to start digging again.
I don't have any Ristijärvi left at all..I planted it all and muched the left overs.. ..but certainly you are welcome for some as soon as mine deliver ..

[potter]

Stevil..there is little bit written about Aleksandria in Sesto's pages,, www.nordgen.org/index.php/en/content/view/full/344
It was some Finnish literature that mentioned it being originally from Russian Giant.
Gererally very little is been done research for Finnish varieties..few local landraces that are known and named..are named by the growing area or the grower. Garlic is been grown in Finland since 1600's
I think some Finns are only just starting 'wake' up for the idea that their long grown locals varieties, what ever edible, has some 'value'. They just simply been grown because it is cheap and easy way carry on without going to trouble buying from further from field..and of course they are reliable varieties.
But I know from my own 'country' roots that like my relations..they don't realize and nor they associate in growing circles, that something they have would be anything special.
Now and then something comes up in news..that something thought lost or not known has 'popped' up..how many varieties get lost before then... ..but suppose its same story everywhere..

[potter]

"Story" of Aleksandra.."The time of the rumored introduction and the name both strongly suggest that Miss Aleksandra (Alexandra) Smirnoff is concerned. She was pomologist who did her carrier in the end of 1800s and early 1900s. Her father was Russian and mother from (Grand Duchy of) Finland. She introduced plants from Russia to Finland and also vice versa. She also studied in Sweden for some time and revised and re-authored the books on pomology by Olof Eneroth."

[stylemichelle21]

I had no idea there were so many different varieties of garlic. Do you choose the type based on personal taste or what grows best in your zone? And 12540dumont, I laughed out loud at your "Montana Red" comment.

[steev]

As to differentiating garlics, my criteria are: productivity, clove size, ease of peeling, and keepability. Aside from those, it's like "all cats are gray in the dark" to me. Actual cats, of course, are a whole different kettle of fish.

[toad]

Tasting raw garlic, I'm sure most of us here can taste significant differences. In the same taste test I had garlics so gentle, they had little taste, and garlics so fierce my tears dripped onto my chin. In between some cultivars have more nuances than merely being garlicky. But then, the growing conditions also influence the taste. Please make your own little study on this :-)

[paquebot]

Indeed, tasting the garlic raw is where many "identical" varieties differ. When planting, I've often been asked to "try this one" and generally it is one which is loaded with fire. I grew Wildfire for 4 or 5 years to try to get it up to a larger size and it was one which lives up to its name. When the fields were disked right after harvesting, I went through and collected whatever the digging crew had missed. All were mixed together to use in the kitchen and it was impossible to know which variety any of them were. Some were very hot and some very mild. There was one in particular that I loved and there was only half of the bulb since the disk had cut it in half. It could not be ascertained if it were a softneck or hardneck but the flavor was excellent.

Martin

[12540dumont]

To Steev's requirements, I add one more disease resistance.

I live very close to Christopher Ranch. They have over planted until they have made garlic rust an annual problem.

In 1998, following the very wet EI Niño weather event, a devastating outbreak of rust disease severely damaged the garlic crop in California. The disease also occurred in 1999 and 2000, indicating that rust may have developed into an annual problem. The pathogen as Puccinia allii. It infected allium crops such as garlic, onion and chives, but not leek, elephant garlic or shallot.

This is why I'm working on true garlic seed. Real garlic seed, not the clone of the garlic may be able to break the disease cycle. This project is much more difficult than anything else I have undertaken.

We have tried buying plant stock that is not from California. This helps. We also tried some resistant cultivars. Bulbils, which never touch the ground are also some of the things we are trying.

I can't give up my onions and garlic! How would I cook? One of the saddest days on the farm is the day we run out of onions (or garlic).

[steev]

That is certainly a problem, which they have promoted by not adequately rotating their planting. I am concerned about propagating from bulbils due to this disease concern, the time required to production, and the additional work of moving the plants around to avoid entrenched disease.

[oxbowfarm]

Don't forget bloat nematode! Just in case you were sleeping to soundly.

[mnjrutherford]

Martin - How do you guys organize your garlic in ground? This may not of any great importance to most, but for our situation it is.

Also, since you are so familiar with the varieties, would you be so kind as to list them? My current understanding is that hard neck soft neck is the primary difference. But the next question for me becomes, "Can silverskin/rocambole/artichoke/etc.. be hard OR soft? Or are they EITHER hard OR soft?" I'm not sure I've expressed that question very well. I hope you understand my meaning.

I've a young man I'm mentoring. I gave him a hundred or so cloves yesterday and told him to join the forum. He's a very dedicated young man and very interested in agriculture on our level. I want to give him the best quality data I can.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I organize my garlic in the ground semi-haphazardly...

When digging, the finest bulbs are saved for planting. These go into the ground as a bulb-to-row planting: All but the smallest cloves from each bulb are planted together into the row, and then 2 feet of space is left blank in the row and the next set of cloves are planted. Any new varieties that are received are planted in the same way: bulb-to-row.

Next year I intend to plant Egyptian onions in the blank spots. I may also stuff green onions into those spots first thing in the spring.

Then, since I never have enough of the finest bulbs with the largest cloves, I plant random cloves from random bulbs, all jumbled up together.

When I am harvesting bulbs I keep a bucket of bulbs that I call the diversity bucket... These are for planting bulb-to-row next season. One bulb from each family group goes into this bucket pretty much regardless of what type it is, or how well it grew. Also anything from the random planting that looks unusual or different from the others.

My garlic is consumed almost immediately, so I don't care about storage qualities. I've never yet grown a hard-necked that did very well in my garden, so most of my crop is soft-necked.

I don't care what my garlic tastes like. As long as it's garlic, it's acceptable.

[paquebot]

Nov 13, 2011 11:50:26 GMT -5 mnjrutherford said:

Martin - How do you guys organize your garlic in ground? This may not of any great importance to most, but for our situation it is.

One field runs north-south and a slight slope. The other field runs east-west and nearly flat. About half of a variety is planted in one and the rest in the other. I've suggested planting in alphabetical order so as to avoid possible mistakes but permanent markers and good paper records assure that there aren't mistakes.

Also, since you are so familiar with the varieties, would you be so kind as to list them? My current understanding is that hard neck soft neck is the primary difference.

List is already available at www.wegrowgarlic.com

Finished planting there a week ago today. Thought that we could start straw mulching yesterday but 3" of rain a few days ago nixed that idea.

Interesting how things cycle around as for what I personally grow. 6 years ago, I had 27 varieties. Most were turned over to WeGrowGarlic and my beds became mostly for increasing growing stock or nursing some up to larger size. After all was done with my plantings this fall, it's 27 varieties again!

But the next question for me becomes, "Can silverskin/rocambole/artichoke/etc.. be hard OR soft? Or are they EITHER hard OR soft?" I'm not sure I've expressed that question very well. I hope you understand my meaning.

All artichoke types are softnecks. All others are hardnecks. However, some artichoke varieties may send up a partial or full scape under certain conditions.

Martin

[12540dumont]

Martin also grows spectacular Walking onions. I'd call these running as they haven't been in the ground very long and well...they're off to the races.

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[extremegardener]

I have 7 varieties, 4 hardneck and 3 softneck that I have been growing here for 20 years and more. I continue to keep them separate, but long ago I had a mishap with the markers, and I no longer know which is which. They all started off with distinctive characteristics, but over the years, they have all become so similar that I can only tell soft neck from hard-neck, so, in my experience, garlics seem to be very affected by their environment in terms of how they express their genetics...