ahto
gopher
Posts: 8
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Post by ahto on Jan 9, 2012 6:57:59 GMT -5
Does anyone here grow JA (Helianthus tuberosus L.) fare North like Alaska, Northern Canada, Finland, north of Sweden or Norway?
I am interested in JA varieties which flower and produce tubers during short growing season (less than 1500 C accumulative temperatures during growing season).
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 9, 2012 7:25:02 GMT -5
Does anyone here grow JA (Helianthus tuberosus L.) fare North like Alaska, Northern Canada, Finland, north of Sweden or Norway? I am interested in JA varieties which flower and produce tubers during short growing season (less than 1500 C accumulative temperatures during growing season). ahto: welcome to the forum. Please tell us about your garden and what you hope for it in the future. 1500 GDD 10C?  What an extravagantly warm growing season!!!  I'm much further south, but I grow sunroots at high elevation in a valley surrounded by even higher mountains, so the cool air settles into the valley. In 2011 my GDD 10C was 1300. My sunroots are open pollinated, genetically diverse, and provide an abundance of seeds. Send me a personal message if you'd like to arrange a swap for seeds or tubers.  |
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ahto
gopher
Posts: 8
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Post by ahto on Jan 9, 2012 8:46:21 GMT -5
Hi joseph!
Thank you for replay!
I live in Estonia (Europa) close to capital Tallinn. According to information I have GDD10C is here 1700-1900.
I have been growing JA as part of "JA to fuel ethanol" project over 5 years. Have got very good results with no name locally found variety. Over 50 t tubers per ha /calculated from smaller test plot) at 18-25% DM. Growing conditions - row spacing 80 cm (set by my compact tractor wheelbase), high hilling (about 20 cm) and narrow space between plants (10-15 cm), heavy clay rich soil deeply tilled before tuber planting and row forming.
The problem I am facing is following - plants flowering in the end of August/beginning of September, all carbohydrates have moved from foliage to tubers in the middle or end of October (maximum tuber yield and DM/ha). It is just impossible to harvest so late here because of frost or heavy raining which makes tractor usage just impossible.
So I have been looking for "very early" JA varieties. Have tested "Topstar" from Germany (GDD10C about 2400) and "Stampede" from USA. No success. What is very early for USA or Germany is fare too late for Estonia.
I was thinking about JA varieties adopted to colder environment to see if movement to South could make them mature earlier and make it possible to harvest tubers in the end of September/beginning of October (which is potato harvesting period here).
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Post by ottawagardener on Jan 9, 2012 9:50:45 GMT -5
Joseph: Those are nice looking sunchokes. I especially like that they are smooth and have gentle variegations in colour.
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Post by MikeH on Jan 9, 2012 12:22:50 GMT -5
I had JA's from Mapple Farm last year but managed to kill them in a very delayed transplant to a new location. If I hadn't though, I probably wouldn't have discovered Maddog chokes. I ordered Osbourne and PGR-2367. We don't have friable soil except in the raised beds but I don't want to grow them anywhere where I need to control them. So I'm thinking of planting some in a wilder area of the property and just letting them go. The remainder I'll plant in Rubbermaid tubs to make harvesting easier. Just dump the tub, harvest, and some for next year. Regards, Mike |
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Post by ottawagardener on Jan 9, 2012 15:06:51 GMT -5
Mike, you are a wealth of information! If you want to try a standard variety (don't know, from a market), let me know and I can give you some of mine too. I also have a red type from Tourne-sol.
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Post by ottawagardener on Jan 9, 2012 15:13:33 GMT -5
After lusting over the offerings at Mad Dog, I suspect my yellow skinned type is Stampede but I couldn't be sure. I do grow in sandy soil though so who knows how it would do for you. However, you are more than welcome to try. They have been good keepers indoors for me in a basement cellar in a pot of soil.
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Post by stevil on Jan 10, 2012 4:19:09 GMT -5
Hi Ahto,
I'm living at about 64N near Trondheim, Norway and have tried many varieties over the years. The only one to give reliably good yields here (first flowering end of August in a very good year, October in a cold summer) is called "Dagnøytral" (Dayneutral). It is called Bianca in Sweden, although Danish "Bianca" seems different. I obtained Stampede from the US 3 years ago and it seems to be identical to Dagnøytral/Bianca (which first appeared here in the 1970s).
The Norwegian Genetic Resource Centre collected about 40 land races of Jerusalem Artichokes some years ago and a national clone collection was established. Some comparisons have been made, but only in the very far south of the country where the collection is located. Members of the Norwegian Seed Savers, which I coordinate, are now also maintaining most of the varieties, but I haven't heard of any of them outcompeting Dagnøytral so far. Several of these are no doubt identical.
Stephen
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 10, 2012 5:12:08 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread, but are many varieties of JA sterile? Or at least partly so? Or is it that most folks plant from tubers and then typically only have a single clone that is self incompatible? The reason I ask is that you rarely if ever hear of JA seed. Joseph is the only person I've ever heard of who regularly gets some from his plants. Or maybe I'm wrong, its not like I've searched the world over for this information. Seems to me finding fertile clones to cross up and trial the offspring might be an option for ahto.
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ahto
gopher
Posts: 8
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Post by ahto on Jan 10, 2012 6:29:17 GMT -5
Mike - www.maddogfarm.ca/j_art.html is are really good find! I have Google searched "Jerusalem artichoke Canada" but it never came up before. They indicate "Stampede" as late maturing variety (I assume it is the same "Stampede" as in USA). But they have early varieties "Comber" and "Cambridge" which would be interesting to try here. Unfortunately they do not send tubers outside. Does anyone here have these varieties available? Stephen - Climatic conditions here and in Trondheim seems quite similar. Your Winters are even milder than ours I guess because of Golf Stream. Do you have any idea what is average GDD10C there? My local variety outperformed "Stampede" from USA but tubers look very similar (yellow, knobby). It would be interesting to try "Dagnøytral" variety. I could send you my local JA variety if you are interested in. oxbowfarm - There is very little work done on JA selection compare to potato or white corn for example. It is interesting that a lot of selection and hybridization work on JA cultivars was done by Russians during 1950-1970. They even crossed JA and sunflower and got one of the most efficient photosynthesis land plant called "topisolnecnik". The varieties I have been working with are quite different and combining good properties of each would result superb plants for commercial utilisation. For example "Gute Gelbe" has lot of foliage per ha, "Topstar" is highest variety (average close to 3m, highest plants 4+ m) I have working with, my local variety yields a lot of knobby tubers ect. At the moment the main goal is to find early enough variety to start with. |
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Post by MikeH on Jan 10, 2012 7:01:35 GMT -5
Mike, you are a wealth of information! If you want to try a standard variety (don't know, from a market), let me know and I can give you some of mine too. I also have a red type from Tourne-sol. Looks like more swapping. Hehehe, says he, rubbing his hands together. BTW, my son and his wife live just off 416 just south of 417 which isn't all that far from Arnprior. In fact, we've sometimes missed the 7 turnoff and been on our way to Arnprior. We'll have to set something up in the spring. Not to hijack this thread, but are many varieties of JA sterile? Or at least partly so? Or is it that most folks plant from tubers and then typically only have a single clone that is self incompatible? The reason I ask is that you rarely if ever hear of JA seed. Joseph is the only person I've ever heard of who regularly gets some from his plants. Or maybe I'm wrong, its not like I've searched the world over for this information. Seems to me finding fertile clones to cross up and trial the offspring might be an option for ahto. I'm guessing that most people plant from tubers since tubers multiply rapidly. They don't have a need for seed unless they are breeding. But they have early varieties "Comber" and "Cambridge" which would be interesting to try here. Unfortunately they do not send tubers outside. Does anyone here have these varieties available? If you want seeds, I can add the two varieties to my order. It appears though that the seeds will be from crossing since the plants only produce seeds when pollinated by a different strain growing nearby. Let me know. Regards, Mike |
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Post by ottawagardener on Jan 10, 2012 8:21:25 GMT -5
I was under the impression that in some places there wasn't enough time to set seed. We had a really late frost this year and my JA flowers seemed to go to seed but I wasn't sure if the 'seed' I found was viable. I figure if there are a bunch of babies growing nearby the parents then I'll know.
I'm very much looking forward to it!!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 10, 2012 11:40:42 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread, but are many varieties of JA sterile? Or at least partly so? Or is it that most folks plant from tubers and then typically only have a single clone that is self incompatible? The reason I ask is that you rarely if ever hear of JA seed. Joseph is the only person I've ever heard of who regularly gets some from his plants. Or maybe I'm wrong, its not like I've searched the world over for this information. Seems to me finding fertile clones to cross up and trial the offspring might be an option for ahto. I agree that there is great potential for Ahto to grow sunroots from seed, and to select the perfect traits for those fields. I haven't examined the blossoms closely enough to determine if it's a self-incompatibility reaction going on within a patch of clones, or if commercial clones are male sterile. It would be easy enough to see: Look for pollen on the flowers. The commercial clone that I am growing will set some seed if pollen is imported from my fertile landrace. It's not like my sunroots are barely producing a few seeds here or there. First year seedlings produce several thousand seeds per plant. And they are cold-hardy enough that they keep right on growing and maturing seeds through the first few fall frosts. Goldfinches sure get after them though. |
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Post by cortona on Jan 10, 2012 14:34:16 GMT -5
uh Joseph, if you dont have prepared my packet.....can you ad some of your fertile line of sunroots? seeds probably are better on passing the customers
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 10, 2012 15:48:10 GMT -5
Cortana: Sure thing. Sorry I'm being slow. An extended family member has been having a tough time, and since it's winter and I'm not actively farming, that is taking me away from home and distracting me from shipping seeds in a timely manner.
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What an extravagantly warm growing season!!! 
