How are your peas doing?

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Yeah i noticed that. I'm wondering now if there are other genes which regulate intensity of color displays. If so it could still be the same version of the color pattern, but perhaps with different genes for intensity. I don't know. I will get a better feel when my salmon flowered start blooming later this season. It could be a different mutation all together though, but it was much darker when it first appeared. The photo was taken after it had already started to fade.

[blueadzuki]

Jun 4, 2012 11:49:09 GMT -5 keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) said:

Yeah i noticed that. I'm wondering now if there are other genes which regulate intensity of color displays. If so it could still be the same version of the color pattern, but perhaps with different genes for intensity. I don't know. I will get a better feel when my salmon flowered start blooming later this season. It could be a different mutation all together though, but it was much darker when it first appeared. The photo was taken after it had already started to fade.

I have noticed (in my own peas) that there also seems to be a connection between intensity of flower color and flower/plant size. Quite simply the smaller the plant/flowers (were talking about plants that are gentically smaller, not ones made small by bad condtions, I'd call those short, not small) the more intense the flower color seems to be. The semi wild field peas I used to grow, which was about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of a "normal" domestic pea, produced flower that, while tiny (maybe about the size of a M&M) was intensly bicolored, red and blue (in fact, it looked kind of like a tiny version of the "Cupani" sweet pea, without the ruffling). This also applied to my grasspeas, the large seeded "Indian Pea" type have flowers that are a rather washed out blue; the "wild type" I used to grow were deep deep azure. It's like the plants have only so much pigment to use, and the bigger the flowers the plant produces, the wider that pigment is spread and the paler the resultant flowers. If you want truly intense flowers, the only other advice I can give is pick dark seeds. The flower coloration genes and the seed coat color genes are quite close together, usally, hyperactivity of one causes hyperactivity of the other. One thing though, this will usually make the peas taste worse (in extreme cases, it make actually make them mildy poisonous)

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

The connection between color intensity and flower size probably is just as you described, that the amount of pigment is the same but dispersed more widely or more compactly. But i was referring to genetic expression of flower color in the amount of pigment particles produced, and I'm wondering if this light pink flower could be "enhanced" if it were to be paired with a more "active" pigment gene that happens to produce more pigment particles.

One thing though, this will usually make the peas taste worse (in extreme cases, it make actually make them mildy poisonous

I have heard this before, but i really believe that it is no more than rhetoric or dogma. I don't think the anthocyanin pigments make much of a difference in flavor, but if they do i think they actually make a positive contribution. Awhile back i read a page about pea breeding (found here) and they also claimed that the white flowered peas tasted better and the colored peas tasted worse (even the deer seemed to agree with them). But i am more inclined to believe that while there may be a general correlation it is more of the fact that the colored peas are field peas and have none of the improved genes often found in the white varieties. So if one were to use a colored variety as breeding stock it would effect the flavor because it is grouped (and possibly linked) to the field pea genetics. This problem can probably easily be overcome if dedicated selection after a number of generations is made, but most people find that working with recessive white flowers to be easier. And as a result most peas with colored flowers remain unimproved and less palatable.

It is common knowledge, in that research community, that the reddish purple coloration in the flowers, stems and leaves of specific pea plants is due to the presence of anthocyanin, a pigment producing flavanoid that also contributes to that plant’s bitterness.

I really don't agree with this "wisdom", but i will concede that if it is true that it probably doesn't affect me anyway since i lack the genes necessary to taste most bitter foods, since i can't taste PTC paper. I actually seem to prefer fruits that have high levels of anthocanins since they taste better to me, but maybe my gentics have wired my taste buds differently than other people. I have heard that people like me who are also non-tasters of bitterness are apparently bad wine tasters.

On another note, i noticed that today is an especially hot day and most of the plants in the garden are slightly droopy. One of the pea varieties that looks to be mostly unaffected by this is the Virescens Mutante. It seems to have a slightly lighter green, almost bluish color to it, and it looks like it is the same shade as the wild drought tolerant daisy's and the sand lily's which are also slightly bluish. If so, i like that this pea seems to handle hot and dry fairly well.

[blueadzuki]

I actually wasn't referring to the flowers in that case, at least, not directly. It's just that, as I said, the genes that control pigments in the flowers are really close to the ones that control many of the chemicals that wind up in the seed and seed coat. You are right antocyanins should not have all that much effect on the flavor. But deep deep in the ancient pea ancestry are a lot of compunds that are designed to protect the seed from being eaten by animals, same as other wild plants. A lot of those chemicals are tied to the ones that add the browns, greens, tans specks and mottlings to the pea seed coat. So the stronger those marking, the higher the likeyhood the peas flowers will be rich in pigments, but also the higher likeyhood the seeds will be filled with higher than normal (or, at least, highter than were are used to now) amounts of compounds that will make them bitter or unpalatable. There are some very nice peas that have colored flowers and seeds, a lot of Chinese snow pea lines have flowers that are bright scarlet, and one of my favorite varities, for hardiness (now alas lost) had brick red seeds. So colored seeds, are often less tasty than white seeds (and I mean "are often" there are undoubtedly tons of exceptions) that's really all I was saying. On a personal note, I have found the mottling gene (like on Maple, or Latvian, the one that makes what I call the "camo" pattern) has one other disadvantage to the home gardner. If you drop mature white skinned peas on the ground (or the pods shatter) it's not wet on the ground, and the animals haven't been around, you can probably find them and collect them up, so no crop loss. With the mottled ones, forget it, once they hit the ground, they become INVISIBLE (I have actually found dropped mottled peas all over the ground my running my hand over it when I could not see pea #1) That's how good those spots break up the outline on dusty ground.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Here is a new photo of Spaeth's Hohenheimer Rosablaettrige Futter. This is a picture of a fresh photo before it has started to fade, and as you can see this one seems very close to the photos i have seen of Salmon Flowered. Perhaps not exactly the same. or perhaps this years heat is affecting my peas this year. I have noticed that many of them while having colored flowers are not as bright as i would have expected, and seem to also fade faster than expected. So it could be the same flower mutation as Salmon Flowered, but environmental differences could be playing a role. Or it could just be very close.

On a personal note, I have found the mottling gene (like on Maple, the one that makes what I call the "camo" pattern) has one other disadvantage to the home gardner. If you drop the mottled ones, forget it, once they hit the ground, they become INVISIBLE...

lol. That happened to me earlier this year with the gray ones with speckles too. The only one i know of in my collection that has the reddish-brown mottled pattern like Maple is the one known as the Mummy-pea. But it is also the only pea in my garden that has bright pink stems too, which is pretty cool.

I'm starting to get pods on Purple Passion (the one with dark purple seeds), but it does not have purple pods like reported. It has green pods.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Many varieties of peas are blooming for me... I have started crossing Austrian winter peas with my earliest shelling peas. It would be really clever to develop a winter-hardy shelling pea that could be planted in September, overwinter, and produce a super early harvest. As with last year, I am amazed at how early the blossom is pollinated, and how tiny of a blossom I have to open up to find one that hasn't released it's pollen yet. I'm using brighter colored tags this summer, hoping that they will be easier to find when the seed matures.

[DarJones]

Remind me to send you some of the winter hardy peas I grow Joseph. They are planted in the fall and overwinter, then produce a crop very early the next spring. They are soup peas meaning yellow hard and round.

DarJones

[becbec31871]

Our purple hull peas did extremely well!!I shelled out 3 gallon size ziplock and 3 pint size ziplock so far.I still have more!!I'm hoping to seed so I can plant more.Along with adding more beans to the garden as well as peas.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

I've been trying to do crosses this week. I'd say about half are blooming, but this really is turning out to be a bad year for peas (and also pea trials). The heat and dry air is killing. Most are already turning yellow on the bottom and look like they are struggling to survive. Purple passion was the first to set a nice pod, so i should get at least a few seeds from it, but others like Biskopens (which needed 5ft+ last year to set flowers) are still rather short (~1.5ft), and i don't know if i will get any peas from them.

I've been trying my best to try and do some crosses between the yellows and the purples, but i am finding Opal Creeks flowers to be especially difficult to work with. Not only are they white, but they are tightly packed and seem to mature pollen especially early. Trying to depollinate them is hard, so i am mostly trying to use them as the pollen parent in crosses. Hopefully i will get some reds in a few years.

Even some of my other crops are showing signs of coping stress every once in awhile, but they are doing better than the peas. Amaranth is doing the best, Beans are doing second best, Tomatos third, watermelon seedlings and squash fourth, sunflowers fifth. There were some peas and radishes planted in an area with partial shade and they seem to be doing ok. It seems that partial shade is a very useful technique to employ out here.

[12540dumont]

Once it hit 90, the peas just committed suicide. I'm pulling the vines and stacking them for a few days. Next week I'll pull the pods off and let them dry up a bit. I had to stack them on a tarp, which I don't like to do.

I had some great tasting peas this year, over several weeks. I'm saving the seeds from my favorite row separately. Most of them were white flowered.

I forget who asked by the Taiching 11 & 13 were grand Snow peas.

I'm harvesting favas, so every tray/screen etc. is full.

Dar, really can soup peas be planted in the fall? Any kinds, or just your specials?

[robertb]

I've got the opposite problem; it's been so cold I'm about a month behind where I should be. The peas are fine, but nothing's flowering yet.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

The only three peas that are doing okay are Mummy-pea, which is starting to get fairly tall and showing signs of fasciation, Virescens Mutante, and Sugar Magnolia. I just gave them all a good soaking, so hopefully most of them can produce pods. That's about all i can hope for now, i don't think i'm going to be able to do many crossings this year. But, on the other hand... the ones planted in the partial shade are doing very well now... i did mix in some Opal Creek, Golden Sweet, and Sugar Magnolia peas in the mix... i may have to do some crosses in the eating patch. I do have tags that i can label my crosses if i do.

[blueadzuki]

I get the worst of both; most years the temperture goes from seriosly gold to seriosly hot seriosly fast. So the peas usally do nothing. For months on end the temps stay near freezing (not cold enough to kill the peas, but cold enough to stop them growing any more) then when it warms up, it's only 4 weeks or so before they hit 90 killing the plants (or, if its a very humid year, making them lock themselves into perpetual leaf growth, so they never flower. This year they struggled for about 8 weeks, then dropped dead when a hard rain rotted them all off at the base.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

I've been watering my peas heavily the last couple days and i think they are making a comeback. I've been able to even attempt a few more crosses here and there. I've marked a few attempted red-pod crosses, and i marked one between canoe (12 peas/pod) with opal creek. A yellow podded pea with 12 peas/pod would be something worthwhile i would think.

[raymondo]

Got a bunch of peas coming up in the winter garden I guess from seed that dropped at harvest time last summer. They all look to be the Golden Podded variety as they all have that telltale pinkish red ring around the stem-clasping leaf. There's also a sweetpea among them (I grow the two together for a bit of eye and nose candy). They're growing very slowly, understandable given that it's winter. They won't get watered but I don't think that will bother them because I mulched that area heavily after the pea harvest and they've just pushed their way up through the mulch.