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Post by plantsnobin on Feb 21, 2008 9:03:31 GMT -5
I subscribed to the seed savers list that someone here mentioned, and haven't actually read most of the emails, but today after I deleted a bunch of them without reading, I opened one and see that they have rec'd a cease and desist order from SSE because they trademarked the term 'Seed Savers' long ago. Now, I am not really on a soapbox here about anything, I don't care who Kent Whealy was fooling around with, and I really don't care what happens at or to SSE. I think the real problem here is that our system is so screwed up. The fact that anyone would have been allowed to tradmark the phrase 'seed savers' is just wrong. Patenting plants is wrong. Take a look at all the plants that are being patented now. THERE IS NOTHING NEW ABOUT THEM. If a plant were truly spectacular, a breeder could sell to a large corporate producer for a handsome profit, without patenting. And if an organization were doing something truly unique, they would not have to trademark a term that is older than dirt. Folks have been 'Seed Savers' a lot longer than Kent has been alive. OK, I guess that did end up being a rant. Point is, it is more important now than ever, to plant gardens, grow what you can and save our own seeds.
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Post by plantsnobin on Feb 21, 2008 9:24:01 GMT -5
I just checked, and the following are all trademarked by SSE-'Seed Savers Exchange', 'Seed Savers', 'Seed Savers International' the logo which is 'cupped hands sharing seeds', 'Heritage Farm' & 'The Flower & Herb Exchange'.
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Post by PapaVic on Feb 21, 2008 12:00:49 GMT -5
I just checked, and the following are all trademarked by SSE-'Seed Savers Exchange', 'Seed Savers', 'Seed Savers International' the logo which is 'cupped hands sharing seeds', 'Heritage Farm' & 'The Flower & Herb Exchange'. If what you typed is accurate exactly ("seed savers" two words), then that leaves a bunch of options for someone who wants to participate in a "seedsaving" list ... "Seed Exchange List," "Seedsavers and Exchange," "Seedsaving Fools," "First Seed Bank and Exchange," etc. Get creative. |
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Post by paquebot on Feb 21, 2008 12:43:39 GMT -5
Since this cease and desist order is apparently a recent thing, I don't think that Kent Whealey can be blamed for it. Sounds like something that the new board has come up with to further establish it's power as a corporation rather than a non-profit organization..
Martin
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Post by ohiorganic on Feb 21, 2008 17:56:59 GMT -5
No this is not recent. The trademarks were taken out while Kent Whealy was still in control/on the board. Nor according to someone on the seed saving list is this the first entity to be given a cease and desist order by SSE.
So there you go
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Post by Alan on Feb 21, 2008 19:06:01 GMT -5
And therin shall lie the problem. SSE will further alienate those who seek to accomplish the same goals as they do. Is it really entirely necessary to copyright a name, life, a song, seed?
I'm tired of everyone thinking they "own" everything. I am particularly disgusted that SSE, an organization made up of "seed savers" who are supposedly interested in maintaining heritage and open pollinated varieties while also distributing those varieties for preservation thinks they need to be paying a lawyer to write a cease and dissist order to any organization that is in particular trying to accomplish the same goal.
Let me tell everyone a little something, when it comes to using the letters of the alphabet, the seeds of the world, the musical notes on an instrument, you don't own Sh**! Get over yourself and realize you are working towards a common goal, but then again are we SSE?
Heres a big middle finger to whatever Jackass thought that was a good idea. Get over it and move forward with your mission statement. Stop wasting everyones time and money.
End of story as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by landarc on Feb 21, 2008 20:02:39 GMT -5
I can see Alan's point here to the degree that things have gotten out of hand. However, as a person that makes his living publishing drawings and documents that not only encompass a particular manner of thought, but ideas and directions that assign a direct liability, as well as profitability to me, the ability to copyright my published works is important. Fact is, if I could trust my clients to use good judgment in applying my ideas and work, and if I didn't have that pesky need to pay for stuff, like gobs of insurance, food, shelter etc... I would love to be able to give good design away.
The reality as I see it is that there is a need for a business to make money, protect your brand and produce product or services. I don't see SSE as necessarily having to do this, but, I do see that even a non-profit has to make money. If the phrase 'seed savers' is a way to protect that ability, you got a right to try. If there is blame, it is with the law that would allow two commonly used words or a phrease within the common language to be copyrighted at all.
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Post by Alan on Feb 21, 2008 23:44:41 GMT -5
I can make some exceptions to my rule. Particularly for literature, art, ext. However on life, never, on methods of producing new varieties, never. And I definetly can't make an exception for a group like SSE who, in my mind, has sort of overstepped their bounds and gone against everything they preach by doing such a thing to a group of similar interest, who if nothing else, they should be supportive of.
It just flat out pisses me off.
We come into this world with nothing and we will damn sure leave with nothing and these plants and ideas existed long before we were here and will exist for long after we are gone, it's just a sad state of affair and another way for man to pretend that he dominates all, including nature and his own kind.
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Post by plantsnobin on Feb 23, 2008 12:44:34 GMT -5
Well, I have been sick for the last two days, laying on the couch. I noticed a commercial that had the term 'It's good to be home' TRADEMARKED! It is the system that is out of control. The patent and trademark offices bring in revenue when they allow these things, so of course it would seem that they are going to grant just about anything. I was telling Alan the other day that I don't think 'non-profits' should be allowed. Who wouldn't like to declare their farm a 'non-profit', get all the tax breaks, be able to take in donations, get nice greenhouses and build great barns, hire people to do the physical work, etc. Tradeoff is that pesky board. I am not talking specifically about SSE, I feel the same about any other. Why shouldn't churches have to pay taxes on what they take in? I think that when SSE started selling seeds and plants that they overstepped what they were supposed to be in the first place. Say you make your living selling heirloom plants. Is it fair that SSE should get to sell plants as a non-profit, when you aren't getting those tax benefits? Doesn't seem fair to me. But then, this could be the cold medicine talking...
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Post by PapaVic on Feb 23, 2008 17:09:36 GMT -5
Bottom line ... when the Dollar = America's Almighty, then anything to capitalize on is fair game. Federal laws are written by persons addicted to the corporate teat.
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Post by sandbar on Feb 23, 2008 20:41:32 GMT -5
... I think that when SSE started selling seeds and plants that they overstepped what they were supposed to be in the first place. ... You bring up a great point that, in SSE's case, I hadn't considered before ... In Ohio, activity like that could cause a non-profit to lose their tax-exempt status. Ohio views a non-profit selling goods/services that compete with commercial businesses as a "business" and not a "non-profit" activity. Thus, you lose your non-profit status and learn to compete with the same tax burden as your competitors do. It levels the playing field. I am a principal in a Christian school and we have been given legal advice to steer clear of fundraising activities that would compete with "for-profit" businesses. Losing our tax-exempt status would financially crush the school. Not worth the risk. I'm amazed it's legal for SSE to do that, but, obviously, it is or they would have been called on that a long time ago. |
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Post by sandbar on Feb 23, 2008 20:43:35 GMT -5
BTW, how long ago did SSE begin selling seeds? Plants?
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Post by paquebot on Feb 24, 2008 0:40:15 GMT -5
BTW, how long ago did SSE begin selling seeds? Plants? Not certain as to when SSE made seeds available to the general public but it's been ages around here. I believe that I was first into the SSE's Madison store in the mid or late 1990s and the public catalog system was well before that. I've always thought that it was a great way to get many of those old varieties back into general circulation rather than within a private closed circuit. Martin |
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Post by ohiorganic on Feb 24, 2008 7:57:51 GMT -5
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Post by bunkie on Feb 24, 2008 15:39:40 GMT -5
thanks ohio, plantsnobin! i siged up to this group mentioned and have been reading the emails and was a bit confused about the SSE cease and desist order. i actually like the Seedkeepers name better!  it's too bad that most of these heirloom seed saving groups can't all get together. isn't the mission the same? i spose as long as they have boards and such, it'll never happen...and it's such a damned important thing to be doing with the world in its awful present state today. peace, bunkie. |
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