|
|
Post by MikeH on Oct 29, 2012 9:24:22 GMT -5
OK, here's the challenge - You need to bring old pasture into cultivation but you can't till, you can't use cardboard or anything like it, and you can't use herbicide. Wood chips are out since they require a chipper and no scrounging the curb-sides is allowed. The reasons for these restrictions matter but I don't want to introduce them because they will sidetrack the discussion. How do you do it?
My goal is to transplant some of the perennial rye and perennial wheat from the raised beds where they grew this year out into wild pasture. Once established I think, based on what I've seen this year, that they can squeeze out unwanted vegetation. Getting them established is the problem.
I'm thinking some combination of mulch, compost and green manure. The green manure has to be something that I can harvest seed from so that I can repeat the process without buying in seed. For the first time this year, the compost pile has grown rather than shrunk so mulch isn't a problem although it'll be another year before we get compost from it.
I'm struggling a bit with the steps and designing them into some kind of a cohesive system.
|
|
|
|
Post by davida on Oct 29, 2012 12:19:53 GMT -5
OK, here's the challenge - You need to bring old pasture into cultivation but you can't till, you can't use cardboard or anything like it, and you can't use herbicide. Wood chips are out since they require a chipper and no scrounging the curb-sides is allowed. The reasons for these restrictions matter but I don't want to introduce them because they will sidetrack the discussion. How do you do it? My goal is to transplant some of the perennial rye and perennial wheat from the raised beds where they grew this year out into wild pasture. Once established I think, based on what I've seen this year, that they can squeeze out unwanted vegetation. Getting them established is the problem. I'm thinking some combination of mulch, compost and green manure. The green manure has to be something that I can harvest seed from so that I can repeat the process without buying in seed. For the first time this year, the compost pile has grown rather than shrunk so mulch isn't a problem although it'll be another year before we get compost from it. I'm struggling a bit with the steps and designing them into some kind of a cohesive system. Could you use Daikon radishes that get to be the size of baseball bats to break up the soil and let them decompose? And then plant your perennial rye and wheat into the decomposed area. I made a post earlier about watching a farmer drilling winter wheat into a no till field and adding Daikon radishes and red clover to the winter wheat seed. David |
|
|
|
Post by bunkie on Oct 29, 2012 12:42:44 GMT -5
my first thought was Buckwheat, because it will crowd out Crabgrass.
is your perennial wheat stabilized mike?
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeH on Oct 29, 2012 12:54:31 GMT -5
Could you use Daikon radishes that get to be the size of baseball bats to break up the soil and let them decompose? And then plant your perennial rye and wheat into the decomposed area. I made a post earlier about watching a farmer drilling winter wheat into a no till field and adding Daikon radishes and red clover to the winter wheat seed. David Yes, I was thinking that they would be good but maybe after an initial seeding of bush peas which can be seeded very early and might get established before the weeds start. If they shade the soil enough perhaps weed seed germination will be limited. Compared to the peas we have, our Daikon radishes don't seem to make much green but that could have been the drought since we planted them in mid-July for our root cellar. Seems that the energy is focused below ground in 12-18+" roots. Or perhaps seed both together. I like both the peas and the radish because I can save seeds from both if I grow them in a separate area just for seed. I could scythe the green when I'm ready to transplant the wheat and rye and covering. I think that the peas might tend to re-sprout though. Hmmm. |
|
|
|
Post by MikeH on Oct 29, 2012 12:57:18 GMT -5
my first thought was Buckwheat, because it will crowd out Crabgrass. is your perennial wheat stabilized mike? I was thinking buckwheat too but I can't let it go to seed because it might cross with my perennial buckwheat. Maybe I'll have to pass on saving buckwheat seed this year. What do you mean by stabilized, bunkie? |
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Oct 29, 2012 13:57:14 GMT -5
Mike have you thought of using Joseph's pole jabber to stab in Austrian Peas, vetch or alfalfa? I have plenty of favas if you want to try favas.
|
|
|
|
Post by davida on Oct 29, 2012 14:16:14 GMT -5
Could you use Daikon radishes that get to be the size of baseball bats to break up the soil and let them decompose? And then plant your perennial rye and wheat into the decomposed area. I made a post earlier about watching a farmer drilling winter wheat into a no till field and adding Daikon radishes and red clover to the winter wheat seed. David Yes, I was thinking that they would be good but maybe after an initial seeding of bush peas which can be seeded very early and might get established before the weeds start. If they shade the soil enough perhaps weed seed germination will be limited. Compared to the peas we have, our Daikon radishes don't seem to make much green but that could have been the drought since we planted them in mid-July for our root cellar. Seems that the energy is focused below ground in 12-18+" roots. Or perhaps seed both together. I like both the peas and the radish because I can save seeds from both if I grow them in a separate area just for seed. I could scythe the green when I'm ready to transplant the wheat and rye and covering. I think that the peas might tend to re-sprout though. Hmmm. MikeH, I had typed in Austrian winter peas and Daikon radishes as my first thought. Then I thought the radishes may be sufficient by themselves. The Daikon was suggested because of the extremely fast growth and supposedly fast decay. It is suppose to take several days of 20F to kill them. David |
|
|
|
Post by diane on Oct 29, 2012 15:39:12 GMT -5
OK, here's the challenge - You need to bring old pasture into cultivation but you can't till, a few pigs for the winter? |
|
|
|
Post by steev on Oct 29, 2012 20:05:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't plant vetch because I did that, and it's now a self-seeding weed which chokes things.
My plan for unimproved soil would be to pig an area until it's depleted of forage, while throwing on whatever organic matter is available, move the pig to a new area, then plant legumes, cutting/pulling them to dry for threshing, returning the waste to the field, occasionally harvesting pork or legumes as they surplussed over my need for tillage or replanting until conditions had met my other needs. I have no idea how that would work in your climate. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by synergy on Oct 30, 2012 3:22:25 GMT -5
I am trying to recover some pasture area to double a garden area for next spring by not tilling but adding two wheelbarrows of horse manure daily from our barn ( horses are bed on coconut husk grindings) spreading it about 4 inches thick and covering that with coir matting stripped from bed boxsprings and given away free at the mattress recycling centre. I will be trying to put a chicken moat around it to help keep the pasture from growing into the garden .
|
|
|
|
Post by circumspice on Oct 30, 2012 9:02:22 GMT -5
I am trying to recover some pasture area to double a garden area for next spring by not tilling but adding two wheelbarrows of horse manure daily from our barn ( horses are bed on coconut husk grindings) spreading it about 4 inches thick and covering that with coir matting stripped from bed boxsprings and given away free at the mattress recycling centre. I will be trying to put a chicken moat around it to help keep the pasture from growing into the garden . That sounds a little icky... I saw a documentary on recycled bedding & lab tests showed that the materials of used mattresses & boxsprings frequently had blood borne pathogens of all sorts. *cringe* |
|
|
|
Post by johninfla on Oct 30, 2012 9:22:55 GMT -5
Do you have any animals to graze it down?
John
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeH on Oct 30, 2012 10:26:34 GMT -5
Mike have you thought of using Joseph's pole jabber to stab in Austrian Peas, vetch or alfalfa? I have plenty of favas if you want to try favas. When I'm ready to transplant the rye and wheat, what do I do with the peas, vetch, or alfalfa? Remember no tilling. Re: field peas, The mower said “no way” to 3 foot tall vines so I pulled out the scythe to cut them down. It would be an understatement to say that this was not easy work. The combination of my limited scything skills and the fact that the peas had a tendency to lay down, especially anytime the blade got a little dull, made for a pretty sweaty and frustrating experience. Lesson learned? Yes, I should have planted the Field Peas with a grain crop, like Oats, that could support the vines. That would have made cutting easier. And maybe planting peas at the end of the season rather than at the beginning, and then letting them winter kill, might have been a better idea.a few pigs for the winter? We have -20C and colder winters so they'd need protection and feed and then slaughter and, and, and, .... We've stayed away from animals because of the level of complexity they create. The more mouths to be fed, the more complex the process especially if the mouths feed big tummies. I wouldn't plant vetch because I did that, and it's now a self-seeding weed which chokes things. Yep, it's part of the landscape here. And not a much appreciated part. Hmmmm. The pig part is a non-starter for reasons already mentioned but I'm chewing on the rest. I think there may be something that can be fitted to our constraints. When I've framed my thoughts enough, I'll post. Edit: Fix confusing typo. |
|
|
|
Post by richardw on Oct 30, 2012 14:15:09 GMT -5
What about yacon Mike,tall enough to suppress out all weeds and then plenty of mulch at the end of the season
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 30, 2012 14:31:25 GMT -5
Mike have you thought of using Joseph's pole jabber to stab in... Could also transplant the wheat and rye that way. In non-tilled ground, I am liking metal pipe better than the pvc that I use in the garden. (Makes the levering action easier.) |
|
