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Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 9, 2012 8:31:43 GMT -5
Just planted my first experiments with potato onions. Last spring I bought some red shallots from the co-op and planted them in the test plot. About 3 of them sprouted and I ended up with about as many shallots as I initially planted. I assume they'll do better next year being fall planted this time and possibly more adapted to my conditions. Holly had asked my in a note one time for any potato onions I might have, at the time I didn't have any but it got me intrigued. I noted the potato onions offered in the SSE yearbook and was very interested in Green Mountain offered by a member from Utah. He has a pretty nice website describing how he is developing Green Mountain. sites.google.com/site/kellysgarden/potato-onionsI had requested it from him last year but he was already out of them by the time my request was made. But yesterday out of the blue a package arrived with several Green Mountain onions and a small packet of True Potato Onion Seed. I've got the red shallot and the Green Mountain planted and mulched. I'm very interested in growing out the TPOS next spring as well. I think Atash mentioned growing Green Mountain before, does anyone have some thoughts to offer regarding potato onions and/or shallots? Same thing as far as I can tell. |
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Post by raymondo on Nov 9, 2012 16:18:58 GMT -5
I had potato onions once a good number of years ago but lost them. I've since acquired what were supposed to be potato onions a few times but they always turn out to be topsetters and not potato onions at all. I'm eagerly watching the current batch to see what they do flower-wise.
Good luck with yours oxbow. It will be interesting following your seed grown plants.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 10, 2012 18:34:57 GMT -5
Your shallots are quite probably hybrids since that's what available now in stores. They may divide into 2 or 3 smaller bulbs but often go to seed instead. (True shallots do not make seed.) If your potato onions do bloom, don't allow the shallots to bloom as they will most certainly cross.
Martin
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Post by richardw on Nov 10, 2012 23:31:39 GMT -5
ive heard of potato onions but never grown them  |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 11, 2012 6:25:10 GMT -5
I'd be happy if they crossed Martin. I think that sterile crops like shallots and garlic should be encouraged to make seed, the way Kelly Winterton is doing and the way Joseph and others are doing with garlic. Just a few years ago everything you could read about garlic would go on and on about how hardy it was and how no pests or diseases bother it. I know a bunch of organic farmers who plant almost a third of their acreage into garlic. That means they definitely don't have enough room for rotation and adequate sanitation.
Now we've got bloat nematode, leek moth, garlic rust, and aster yellows wailing on the garlic and virtually no way to breed for resistance/tolerance because garlic is virtually totally sterile.
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Post by richardw on Nov 11, 2012 12:21:59 GMT -5
Yes you have a very good point,other than that maintenance through careful selection
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Post by paquebot on Nov 11, 2012 15:19:50 GMT -5
There are two types of shallots now. It's only been just over 10 years since the Dutch introduced hybrids which are planted from seed. I planted a mix of them this year and most did not divide more than once or twice. The result was larger bulbs than one would normally expect and that's what I also see available now in stores. Consumers want to see one flat side and that's enough to convince them that it's a shallot. The hybrids are not storing nearly as good as the true golden shallots which I've grown for many years. I've had the goldens last longer than a year and still be solid.
Taxonomically, potato onions and true shallots are the same thing. Not certain where the hybrids fit in but there has been no official claim that they are not shallots. One may then assume that they all may cross if blossoming at the same time.
Martin
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Post by ferdzy on Nov 11, 2012 16:12:38 GMT -5
Paquebot, that's exactly what happened for me this year. A couple years back I bought (at Costco  ) some shallots and planted them. Imagine my perplexity when they grew well enough but just didn't divide much. They sent up flower stalks but never produced seed. Three years later, there were still a few in one of the side beds. Then this summer we found some very large banana shallots for sale and planted them in the garden too. Most of them promptly bolted. However, unlike previous years both the original short shallots and the banana shallots produced large quantities of seed. Judging by the quantity of seedlings already coming up in the bed it is perfectly viable. I'mma plant it in the spring and see what happens. (It's also on my trade list if anyone else wants to plant it in the spring and see what happens. Lottery tickets, they are.) In a perfect world, I would hope to find some that divide passably well AND produce seeds. Oh, and taste like shallots. Well, you never know. |
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Post by ilex on Nov 11, 2012 18:03:41 GMT -5
There are two types of shallots now. It's only been just over 10 years since the Dutch introduced hybrids which are planted from seed. I planted a mix of them this year and most did not divide more than once or twice. The result was larger bulbs than one would normally expect and that's what I also see available now in stores. Consumers want to see one flat side and that's enough to convince them that it's a shallot. The hybrids are not storing nearly as good as the true golden shallots which I've grown for many years. I've had the goldens last longer than a year and still be solid. Taxonomically, potato onions and true shallots are the same thing. Not certain where the hybrids fit in but there has been no official claim that they are not shallots. One may then assume that they all may cross if blossoming at the same time. Martin They seem to be shallots crossed with onions. They are cheaper to produce and more productive than "echalote traditionnelle". As they are hybrids, seed from them should segregate into many things, some closer to the shallot parent. Some of those should also get closer to the shallot taste. |
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Post by paquebot on Nov 12, 2012 0:13:19 GMT -5
Coincidentally, I also grew banana shallots this year and they are not shallots. They are echalions, something between an onion and shallot. They will not divide but make a rather large bottle onion. Mine did not produce to their maximum potential due to extreme drought but have a hundred seeds left for next year. Thompson & Morgan has them with 200 per packet. Like the hybrid shallots, they also apparently do not store as well as true shallots as I've already had some go bad.
Martin
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Post by atash on Nov 12, 2012 3:26:55 GMT -5
Yes, I still have the potato onions, but not many as most of them were eaten by deer. I had no idea deer eat onions. They leave garlic alone, interestingly enough.
They look like hybrids between something like Allium cepa and A. fistulosum, or something similar. Yes, very similar to Shallots, but thanks to Kelly Winterton who reselected the seedlings of the next generation for large bulbs and the propensity to divide, bigger. They are roughly the size of medium-sized onions. Other strains are no bigger than Shallots, and are mild like Shallots. I started a 3rd generation of which I have only a few. And I still have about a dozen or so of the original generation from Kelly, so some day I might have a bunch. But I've got to grow them in my already crowded back yard because they are at risk on the farm. No way to rapidly increase these. If we kept re-selecting seedlings maybe we can get them to breed true from seed, which would resolve the multiplication problem. Then you could plant seeds to get them started, regrow from offsets, and restart from seed as needed, for flexibility.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 12, 2012 6:58:32 GMT -5
Kelly seems to feel that they aren't hybridized with anything but themselves. It would make sense that a shallot/potato onion that did freely bloom and set seed would be different in a number of ways, they would be initially free of virus loads that their parents would have decades/centuries of accumulation of, and they would have recombined/different genetics even if they were only a self pollinated. Just because the parent onion had been cloned for ages doesn't mean its base genetics would be homozygous, the offspring could easily show a lot of variable phenotypes, which Kelly reports seeing.
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Post by cortona on Nov 12, 2012 15:22:02 GMT -5
woow, that's a really interessant treadh, never know about potato onions but it looks interessant
do some of you know how can i find some starter here in europe? can somebody trade with me for some of it?
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Post by paquebot on Nov 12, 2012 16:31:40 GMT -5
Remember that all onions will cross. Topsetting onions do not usually produce seeds but they do often produce blossoms as well as topsets. The pollen in those blossoms is able to pollinate common onions. I grow at least 4 different topsetting varieties but also grow Amish bottle onions for seed. The onions for seed were grown both at home and isolated in a field garden this past season. I have kept the resulting seed separate in case those at home were crossed with the topsetters. It's taken almost 10 years to rogue out a cross which existed in the original stock and I don't want to start over.
Martin
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Post by ilex on Nov 12, 2012 18:18:16 GMT -5
I believe potato onions are pure A. cepa, not a cross with A. fistulosum. There are many onions that are perennial and that will divide if given a chance. Usually not enough to be worth it, but anyway useful (no need to isolate and make seed almost every year). Onions that divide are usually culled, and it's not very common to check if they will survive flowering.
Cortona, contact me, note I can be slow.
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) some shallots and planted them. Imagine my perplexity when they grew well enough but just didn't divide much. They sent up flower stalks but never produced seed. Three years later, there were still a few in one of the side beds. 
