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Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 11, 2012 6:05:11 GMT -5
We've been shelling out our dry beans into jars and I was working through the Brown Trout. Brown Trout is a new bean for us that we got from extremegardener via Seed Savers Exchange. Its a brown version of Trout/Jacob's cattle and seems very early and productive from this first season we've grown it. Anyway, as I was shelling I found a pod or two that had some very different color patterned beans, and unlike anything else we grew this year. I suspect one of the beans we got from extremegardener was crossed in her garden. One other bean we got from her was Dolloff which I actually suspect might be the other parent. The beans have the same color as Brown Trout but the pattern is more like a horticultural/pinto pattern with broken swirling stripes of color vs spots. Dolloff has that same pattern. The beans also have a shape that's about halfway between the rounded cylindrical shape of Brown Trout and the flattened squarish lima bean shape of Dolloff. There's really no way of knowing for sure without some kind of DNA test which would be ridiculous, but I was excited to see this happen. Hopefully extremegardener can weigh in on how close Dolloff and Brown Trout were grown to one another the year these Brown Trout seeds were saved or suggest an alternate candidate for the other parent, I know she grows a lot of different beans. I'm planning on growing these out next year to see how they segregate. I don't remember noticing anything different about the plants in the tiny row of Brown Trout, but I did notice that the pods were a little different from Brown Trout once I started actively paying attention after the first of the new type showed up. If it is a cross with Dolloff the F2 should start to show some segregation for vining vs bush habit with Dolloff being a pole type. Extreme gardener has a wonderful write-up about Dolloff here theextremegardener.com/?p=67And here's a pic of the cross bean with Brown Trout on one side and Dolloff on the other.  |
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Post by wolfcub on Nov 11, 2012 10:49:36 GMT -5
What a nice looking bean, I have grown both these beans (from Grunt Dan) and they were very nice. Maybe next season I will thr to cross them.!!
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Post by ferdzy on Nov 11, 2012 16:05:05 GMT -5
Wow, excellent! They are all such good looking beans. I love the colours.
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Post by raymondo on Nov 11, 2012 16:41:42 GMT -5
If one parent was Dollof, a pole bean, wouldn't the offspring be tall? Not sure but I think tall is dominant in beans. The cross looks like a Pinto type bean. Whatever it is, it should be interesting growing it out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 19:57:56 GMT -5
Ray, as far as I know, you're right: the pole growth habit is dominant in beans. The F2 should be around 3:1 for open pole versus bush.
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Post by circumspice on Nov 11, 2012 19:59:37 GMT -5
Promiscuous critters, aren't they? ;D
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Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 11, 2012 20:18:27 GMT -5
Well, I know scratch about bean genes. They're really not that promiscuous at all, this is the first real bean cross I've ever personally seen, that's why I'm kind of excited to see what it does. I definitely would have noticed if one plant in the row had been pole habit. Hopefully extremegardener may see this and be able to shed some light.
EDIT: I went ahead and searched her SSE listings from last year and saw some other possible parent candidates, all bush varieties with horticultural/pinto type color pattern- Goddard, Littleton Horticultural, and Johnson.
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Post by steev on Nov 11, 2012 22:25:00 GMT -5
Whatever the situation, I like them all; keep us posted. Pretty in storage is an upper on a dreary winter day.
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Post by blueadzuki on Nov 14, 2012 17:40:08 GMT -5
Not to muddy the issue, but i bought a box of Dollof beans (well mostly Doloff's *, I think) at the farmers market today and these were there  While I am not for a moment disputing your conclusion that the beans may be a cross, I am merely pointing out that it seems that beans like those you found are thrown by Dollof from time to time. I am assuming that you couldn't have accidently left a Dollof in the ground in your brown trout patch, but I though it best to point out my discovery. And some of the Dollof in the box also had a long shape, similar to your trouts. * About a handful of the beans in the box were plumper pinker and had red stripes instead of brown. Most likely these are simply some cranberry beans they added to fill out the box, but they could be a cranberry Dollof cross, or a red streaked version of Dollof. I didn't SEE any boxes of cramberry's but a LOT of the boxes had some odd seeds in them (you should have seen what came out of the boxes of Yin Yang I bought at the same time!) |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 14, 2012 21:27:46 GMT -5
I have noticed lots of color reversals in the Dolloff that I've shelled out. Pinto/horticultural beans seem particularly prone to frequent color reversals.
That being said, I'm certain this is a cross. It showed up in my row of Brown Trout and I'm sure I would have noticed an off-type seed in that packet, there were only 30 or 40 seeds to begin with. They were also planted in a completely different area from the corn patch where Dolloff grew.
I want to here more about the Dolloff you were able to buy by the box! I didn't think anyone was growing pole dry beans commercially, and Dolloff is pretty obscure. The picture of you Dolloff seems to be a somewhat different strain though, mine is very flat and more angular in shape and the color is paler and more pink.
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Post by blueadzuki on Nov 14, 2012 21:51:38 GMT -5
I have noticed lots of color reversals in the Dolloff that I've shelled out. Pinto/horticultural beans seem particularly prone to frequent color reversals. That being said, I'm certain this is a cross. It showed up in my row of Brown Trout and I'm sure I would have noticed an off-type seed in that packet, there were only 30 or 40 seeds to begin with. They were also planted in a completely different area from the corn patch where Dolloff grew. I want to here more about the Dolloff you were able to buy by the box! I didn't think anyone was growing pole dry beans commercially, and Dolloff is pretty obscure. The picture of you Dolloff seems to be a somewhat different strain though, mine is very flat and more angular in shape and the color is paler and more pink. Commecial is a relative term. The beans were being sold by one of the stands at the NYC farmers market (sorry forgot to check the name of the stand, it's the same one I get a lot of my potatoes from. and the boxes in question are the same sort of pop open plastic clamshells normally used to sell berries. And I repeat, I don't defintively KNOW these are Doloffs, they just seem to look like they could be. The same way I don't know that the black and white ones I got at the same time are Yin Yangs, that's just what they look like. For the record they also have some sort of white bean (looks like some sort of flageolet) and a roundish bean that is blue/purple/black. |
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Post by extremegardener on Feb 21, 2013 16:55:48 GMT -5
Well, I know scratch about bean genes. They're really not that promiscuous at all, this is the first real bean cross I've ever personally seen, that's why I'm kind of excited to see what it does. I definitely would have noticed if one plant in the row had been pole habit. Hopefully extremegardener may see this and be able to shed some light. EDIT: I went ahead and searched her SSE listings from last year and saw some other possible parent candidates, all bush varieties with horticultural/pinto type color pattern- Goddard, Littleton Horticultural, and Johnson. Gosh, I turn my back on you guys for a few months and all kinds of mayhem shows up!  :-[Anyway, I'm a little embarassed about the outcross, because I try to separate all these guys sufficiently and keep the bees distracted in between to prevent such hanky panky. They have the look of some Dolloff pollen getting into the Brown Trouts. I'll post again in the next couple of days with some pix of what I found in Dolloff in 2008 - 2 variations - One was a whole plant, so I believe that would be an outcross; and one was a single pod on a plant, which I believe would be a sport. Stay tuned.... |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Feb 21, 2013 18:08:18 GMT -5
Do you think the pollen parent is more likely to be Dolloff vs one of the bush horticultural beans?
Either way, I am chomping at the bit to plant these and see what the F2 seeds look like.
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Post by extremegardener on Feb 23, 2013 13:26:52 GMT -5
Do you think the pollen parent is more likely to be Dolloff vs one of the bush horticultural beans? Probably Dolloff is the father, but if you can tell me what date I had on the seed you got from me, I can check to see what else was grown that year. Check this out:  3 Dolloffs shown for reference - these were from a Dolloff outcross that showed up amongst the Dolloffs in 2008 - one plant, pole type. The markings & color are quite similar to yours. These have a little bit of a cutshort thing going on - notice the squaring of the seeds. |
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Post by extremegardener on Feb 23, 2013 14:16:27 GMT -5
And here's another that showed up in Dolloff the same year.  3 Dolloff top center for reference. In 2008 there was just a single pod that had beans that looked like the ones on the right. These (both generations) had a very pronounced yellow/golden cast when the seed was fresh (the photo is of seed that is 3 years old, so colors have darkened). What you see in the photo is from the 2009 growout of the single beanpod, so I guess my assumption that the one pod was a sport/mutation instead of an outcross was not correct. The beans on the left have some resemblance to the seed of Cosse Violetta (purple snap pole) which I grew in 2007... |
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