Persimmons!!!

[Alan]

Hey gang, it's getting to be that time of year again, the time of picking, cleaning, processing, selling and cooking up perssimons! Despite a bad year, and a tree that is teetering on the edge of existence (this tree is one of the oldest in the counties) it looks like we are going to get a large bumper crop of persimmons this year, they are a bit smaller than last year, but the taste is absolutely terrific, despite a bit of graininess from the lack of rain.

I will also be saving seed from these persimmons to propogate this historic tree, any suggestions on saving the seed or germination would be much appreciated.

In bad news, I have yet in my grove of hundreds of Paw Paw trees to find even one!!!!

-Alan

[cff]

To have a tree that is genetically identical to the one you have you'll need to graft it to root stock. I'm not sure if I've seen rootstock for persimmon trees before but www.raintreenursery.com/ could give you the scoop on any rootstock available.

[Alan]

Yeah, I figured I would need rootstock for pure trees, but that's ok, the seeds will have the genetics I want (the only other persimmon tree in the area is of the same species) and give me a bit more to work with so I'll play with them, however I may decide to do a graft at some point.

[redbrick]

Alan, you'll still need to graft it for any real success. The genetics of fruit trees is just too unstable for seed propagation. That being said, plant a whole bunch of those seeds. You can use the seedlings for stocks. Grafting isn't all that tough, either. Do a search for whip-and-tongue grafting method, and you should get plenty of hits. Keep these tips in mind: practice a lot, keep your knife sharp and your roots moist, and watch where your knife goes!

As to starting seeds, most fruit seeds can't take being dried, so plant them right away. I would start some outside in a nursery bed, and some indoors in pots, as an insurance bid. Then, next year (winter 08-09), you should have plenty of grafting stock, and some seedlings for pollination boosters.

[Alan]

Thanks for the advice Red Brick and will definetly do, i'm planing on planting tons of these guys and doing some definite grafting, we will see in time what happens. Sorry that I didn't respond sooner but somehow I missed you post friend.

Thanks for you expertise and will definetly take you advice.
-alan

[plantsnobin]

I guess I would have to see seed versus grafting differently. Diversity is a good thing. Alan-there is a persimmon research farm in Marengo. The guys name is Don Compton, I can look up his phone number for you. You would really enjoy a trip there. He has persimmon trees, and also does a bit with Paw Paws. Now would be a good time for a road trip. He can't sell the persimmons that are on the ground, due to USDA funding, but he does sell trees. I bought a couple this year and just planted them after it cooled down a bit. Thing is, I don't care for grafted trees. One I got looks like my great granny's finger after she chopped it off and the doc sewed it back on crooked. Let me know if you would like more info. Karen

[Alan]

I would definetly be interested Karen and I'm also going to grow out some of those seeds just to see what they do, from reading those Luther Burbank books you gave me it appears that Burbank himself came up with some of his best varieties in this fashion, i'll do a little bit of both and see what I come up with, but I would like to talk to talk to that guy and to visit his research farm, any help would be appreciated Karen.

Your friend,
alan

[plantsnobin]

Alan-Don's # is 723-0099. If you want to call him to set up a time to tour his place, I would be happy to help you find it. It is kinda of one of those 'you can't get there from here' places. My husband is in the middle of a kidney stone situation, so I can't guarantee that I can go, but I should be able to. They blasted his stone today, but they couldn't get all of it due to it's huge size, so we have to do it again, probably a week from this Friday. So, let me know if you get ahold of him, and I can give you directions. Karen

[hoosierheightsfarm]

Let me know when this trip is going to happen, I'll try to be available too. I'd like to join in.

Patrick

[oldgaredneck]

We have one female persimmon tree on our little spot of Heaven, and it is also LOADED.
Sweet and also just a little grainy from the drought. It has several smaller (waist to chest high) trees around it.

[Alan]

i'll definetly let you guys know when I head that way, we can have a field day and do an update here to. I've been thinking about incorporating some audio here and there on my blog and on this site to make things more interactive and this might be a chance to do so, now I just have to make some free time.
-Alan

[redbrick]

Karen, I agree that diversity is definitely a good thing, and that all new varieties do come from planting seeds. That being said, the actual going rate of worthwhile varieties per seed planted is incredibly low. For example, apples weigh in at about four good varieties per thousand seedlings grown. That's .4 percent success rate! Unless you have the room (and most of us don't) you're better off grafting a variety that you know you like. If you have the room (and I believe Alan does), by all means, have at! Just my two cents worth.

[Alan]

I will definetly do some experimenting with grafting and growing seed just to see what we get.....another years in the making experiment I see! Redbrick and Karen thank you so much for your advice!

[tomc]

I have not tried air-layering persimmon, but its one I would try.

[persimmonpudding]

I'll add my voice to those saying to graft the tree to preserve those qualities you know you like. However, there is nothing wrong with using yor seedlings from the parent tree as the rootstock on which you can graft scion from the parent tree. If you have the land, I'd also plant seedlings for diversity in your pollinators as well as for future evaluation and selection.

BTW, what can you tell me about the parent tree?