Breeding perennial wild bean - Phaseolus polystachios

[nicollas]

I'm totally newby at breeding but why not trying something hard but very promising with Phaseolus polystachios  (syn Dolichos polystachyus).
As there is a bunch of talented persons here, it can be very interesting to discuss about it. I honestly dont know where i am going, but at least someone could benefit from discussion and findings that will be put in this thread.

Goal is to get a perennial bean for USDA zone 7 or lower with decent yield or pod size. Obsviously i will start from Phaseolus polystachios hoping the seeds i just get will sprout and trying to cross it


Here is the shared folder with relevant docs : drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw8kgMpvhLfqYjllSl9Wb1lPeUk&usp=drive_web

An interesting start is the phylogenic tree (that can be found in pdf or image in the shared folder), from which i paste the relevant sugroup here



It seems that P. lunatus is a good candidate (maybe more interesting than P. coccineus that is more cold hardy but a more distant neighbor).

The path will be long

[blackox]

I think that somebody has a thread on pea breeding on here that may be useful.

Good luck!

[benboo]

I Would like to work on some breeding too. I planted two P. polystachios plants last spring, and they lived through the season. Unfortunately they did not flower. If they survive this winter I might have some flowers and maybe some seeds to grow out. Hopefully yours will set seed their first year, but I am not sure if that can happen. I will leave an update on what happens in the spring.

[nicollas]

Thanks for the replies,

the thread on breeding beans is very instructive

[nicollas]

I've read in Perennial Vegetables from Eric Toensmeier that only pole forms of Runner and Lima beans are perennial and bush types are annuals

[nicollas]

It seems there are not very much pole lima beans varieties.

* Florida Butter Speckled is interesting because it seems early (68 days)
* Big Mama has huge pods
* Christmas has colored seeds, maybe it can be easier to see cross pollination thanks to that ?

[toad]

I had pole lima beans Purple Eye and Ganymede from Russ Crow of
www.abeancollectorswindow.com

[blackox]

Mr. Crow is an HG member. You could easily arrange a trade with him.

[nicollas]

Thanks for the tips, i think i'll get the most common varieties for this year and try with unusual after a year of experience

[nicollas]

Maybe this is relevant, range of P. polystachios  (and much more)

[nicollas]

Some interesting facts, taken in Common Beans: Research for Crop Improvement
  by Aart van Schoonhoven,O. Voysest





But it seems contradicted by


From here


(the ref Debouck 1991 is the text cited before)

I dont know why it is "not supported in this analysis", and what are the pb in the breeding project discussed on this thread

[nicollas]

Some more interesting facts, and some more ref to hunt


www.agri.ankara.edu.tr/fcrops/1289__BAKLAGILLERDEMELEZLEME.pdf

I cant understand the amphidiploid thing ...

If someone with better access to scientific paper than me get this paper it should be interesting:

Le Marchand G, Marechal R, Baudet JC. 1976 Observations sur quelques hybrides dans le genre Phaseolus: 3. P. lunatus: nouveaux hybrides et considerations sur les affinites interspecifiques. (Observations on some Phaseolus hybrids: 3. P. lunatus: new hybrids and considerations on the interspecific affinities.) Bull. Rech. Agron. Gembloux, 11. (1 - 2): 183 - 199 (1976) - illus. (En) Geog=1 Systematics: ANGIOSPERMAE (LEGUMINOSAE: PHASEOLUS) (KR, 197703293).

And another question, are there advantages to make a P lunatus x P polystachios cross instead of P poly x P lunatus ?

Thanks

[nicollas]

So we have a winner, Mr Lorz who has made th famous cross more than 50 years ago:
An Interspecific Cross Involving the Lima Bean Phaseolus lunatus L

I quote some interesting parts :

The cross P. polystachyus O x P. lunatus $ was
attempted an estimated 50 times with no success, but
an estimated 100 attempts to effect the reciprocal
cross resulted in the production of seven F, plants
for which there is objective evidence that these are
bona fide hybrids, although none of the plants has yet
matured to the point of flower and seed production.

All the hybrids expressed completely or nearly com-
pletely the hypogaeal germination habit of the statni-
nate, P. polystachyus parent. I n two out of the seven
a tendency toward the epigaeal habit of the pistillate
parent was expressed by the slight elevation of the
cotyledons to a level barely above the surface of the
soil. With deeper planting this might even have
escaped observation. I n a Lima control the cotyledons
were elevated to a height of 3 in.

So now we have a method to spot hybrids very fast, great !

The principal objective of the P. lunatus x P. poly-
stachyus cross has been to incorporate into the former
species the hypogaeal germination habit of the latter
in an attempt to solve the emergence problem in
Limas, where a high mortality among seedlings is
likely to result from the breaking of the hypocotyl
("neck-breaking")

Great to see why see crosses was made and a new quality of the polystachios bean that is transmitted to the offsprings

Apart from consideration of this one obviously
valuable germination character is the possibility that
a native species, such as P. polystachyus, having a
comparatively wide geographic distribution, may
possess yet unrecognized resistances to diseases and
pests and may also possess physiological attributes of
survival value. According to Small ( I ) , P. poly-
stachyus ranges from Florida as far north as Minne-
sota, Ontario, and Maine and as far west as -.Texas
and Nebraska, so it seems apparent that the perennial
rootstock a t least has some degree of cold-hardiness
even though the plant usually occurs in protected
locations..

The main problem is sterility, that was not spotted in the article ("none of the plants has yet
matured to the point of flower and seed production.") and maybe the difficulty of the cross 7% success)


Ok so now we've got :

* P lunatus x P polystachios can be made
* A method to spot hybrids
* A sucess rate
* A problem of sterility but that seems not so bad even if i still have to figure out what happening cause i miss some biology notions

[nicollas]

Another document that might be of interest

CYTOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRESS TOWARD DIPLOIDIZATION IN LATE GENERATION AMPHIDIPLOIDS FROM THE CROSS Phaseolus lunatus L.x P.polystachyus(L.) B.S.P.

As "cytoxxxxx" and "xxxdiploid" appears a lot in the scientific litterature of this cross. But for now i'm just lost in these notions of biology. i'm in the scientific paper search phase. It could be the key to produce fertile hybrids ?

To be noted, old publications refers to polystachios as polystachyus, a good tip to know to search.

[blackox]

So let's say that you have a P. Lunatus x P. Polystachios. Would the P. Lunatus (first listed parent) be the female parent and the P. Polystachios (second listed) be the pollen donor? Still learning here...