|
|
Post by diane on Feb 4, 2016 0:38:45 GMT -5
But runners require pollinators
|
|
|
|
Post by steve1 on Feb 4, 2016 0:44:17 GMT -5
Hmm. Isolation then if you want to keep them pure though I've read the hybrids have variable self fertility.
|
|
|
|
Post by raymondo on Feb 4, 2016 4:00:56 GMT -5
Perhaps they have the self-pollinating ability of straight Phaseolus vulgaris.
|
|
|
|
Post by reed on Feb 4, 2016 4:14:21 GMT -5
Park Seed company is offering three common / runner crosses on their web site that it says were bred in England. Here are a couple of them, parkseed.com/moonlight-runner-bean-seeds/p/05767-PK-P1/ parkseed.com/tenderstar-bean-seeds/p/52538-PK-P1/. I haven't bought any commercial seeds for this year but am considering these. Concerning out breeding, are runners normally so? Would a single runner vine grown by itself not produce seeds? If so what if you grew a single runner in a row of common beans, any seed it made would about have to be crosses? |
|
|
|
Post by steve1 on Feb 4, 2016 5:46:23 GMT -5
I must admit I hadn't really thought about the in/out breeding of runners until Diane mentioned it. I might bag a raceme of flowers and see what happens... Interesting idea about the lone runner in the row of vulgaris though...
|
|
|
|
Post by diane on Feb 4, 2016 11:25:02 GMT -5
I think they self-pollinate but require jiggling by a bee.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 4, 2016 13:04:43 GMT -5
Jim Myers of Oregon State University reports highly variable cross pollination rates of up to about 50% in runner beans grown in temperate climates. Summary of paragraph found in The Organic Seed Grower: A Farmer's Guide to Vegetable Seed Production. By John Navazio, Page 285.
|
|
andyb
gardener
Posts: 179
|
Post by andyb on Feb 4, 2016 13:25:43 GMT -5
My understanding is that runner bean stigmas aren't receptive to pollen until they've been mechanically abraded. This can happen from pollinator visits or from wind action. Once they're receptive, they'll take what pollen they get, whether its from themselves or from another plant. As far as I know, they don't have any genetic incompatibility mechanisms that prevent self-pollination.
The direction of the cross also matters. The only cross between common, runner, and tepary beans that is known to produce viable seed is the common x runner cross, using runner bean pollen and a common bean flower. The others are possible, to varying degrees, using embryo rescue techniques, but that's a bit involved. The success rate also varies depending on the genotypes of the parents, so there's always the possibility that some of the other crosses might produce viable seeds if you pick the right parents. A long shot, but maybe worth a try. In any case, it would probably be a good idea to emasculate the flowers and do lots of hand pollinations. I'm planning to work on it this summer.
A google search on "phaseolus coccineus vulgaris intraspecific cross" will get you lots of reading material.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 4, 2016 14:00:34 GMT -5
The direction of the cross also matters. The only cross between common, runner, and tepary beans that is known to produce viable seed is the common x runner cross, using runner bean pollen and a common bean flower. I feel content about that... I grew a row of runner beans this summer right in the middle of a field of common bush beans. I'll watch for pole beans and/or scarlet flowers among the offspring, and not be too eager to cull any pole beans that might show up. I also grew the Oxbow farm hybrid clade which contained pole beans. |
|
|
|
Post by reed on Feb 4, 2016 16:00:54 GMT -5
Very interesting. So a common bean plant or two in a runner bean patch is a better shot than the other way around. Think I'll try that this year. If there is only a few common among the runners I can just save those seeds to plant. In the random chance method I use now a lot of crosses would end up in canning jars or soup before they had a chance to reveal themselves with off type flowers. I am pretty sure now that those random crosses do occur more often that a lot of literature I'v seen indicates.
|
|
|
|
Post by robin282 on Feb 21, 2016 9:16:36 GMT -5
I am learning quite a lot here about runner beans here, thank you! Last fall, I dug up my roots to see if I could keep them over the Winter. I read that it is possible. This year, I would like to grow as many different varieties as possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by philagardener on Feb 21, 2016 10:41:25 GMT -5
I am learning quite a lot here about runner beans here, thank you! Last fall, I dug up my roots to see if I could keep them over the Winter. I read that it is possible. This year, I would like to grow as many different varieties as possible. Where are you storing the roots? In a root cellar? I tried this one year (long, stringy roots), storing them alongside my Dahlias, but they dried out and didn't make it. I think that would get you a nice jump on the growing season if it works. Keep us posted! |
|
andyb
gardener
Posts: 179
|
Post by andyb on Oct 23, 2016 22:49:02 GMT -5
I must admit I hadn't really thought about the in/out breeding of runners until Diane mentioned it. I might bag a raceme of flowers and see what happens... I had a runner bean plant indoors under lights with some excess flowers, so I did a simple experiment by labeling and tracking some flowers with different treatments. The first I left alone. The second I triggered a few times. The third I triggered and then lightly rubbed the stigma with tweezers. The numbers are pretty small, and this is with a single plant, but it's pretty clear that manipulation helped these flowers set pods: No treatment: 0/9 set
Trigger only: 6/8 set 5/8 set (a bud I thought had set fell off overnight)
Trigger & scrape: 4/6 set |
|
|
|
Post by Srdjan Gavrilovic on Nov 24, 2017 3:28:00 GMT -5
Greetings from Estonia, My name is Srdjan Gavrilovic, For few years already, I live in Estonia and I try to start a backyard garden. I've been going through the forum for some time and enjoyed reading through many topics/projects. I decided to stay and ask for a help. I'm looking for mixed genetics runner beans to buy and I'm interested if anyone can help? I already tried for 2 years with seed pack from local shops and all I have to show is 4 seeds from this year (7 seeds in previous year). The sad thing is that plants from last year's seeds did not mature seeds this year. I assume that genetic variability is narrow to extent that there is not much adaptive potential left. Some plants might benefit from micro-climates in my garden but as soon as moved few meters they fail... I acquired 2 accessions of Phaseolus polystachios and I'm interested to cross them with Phaseolus coccineus and form a sworn that might be used for further selection.  Is there anyone there with mixed genetics runner beans that could sell me some? Or I'm stuck with getting seeds from different Ebay sellers, crossing them myself and hoping for the best. Best, Srdjan |
|
|
|
Post by philagardener on Nov 24, 2017 7:31:51 GMT -5
Welcome, Srdjan! One of our members from SW France, nicollas , was interested in a similar project a few years ago. Maybe he will drop in with an update  |
|
